<p>And a distinction needs to be made from service to the community and internships as opposed to what could be considered an extreme concept like compelled labor for some entities individual benefit. Having US corporations and farmers (and despite the mythology many farms are large corporate farms) using student labor as a source benefits only the corporate contingent. And something like that could undermine the whole intent of service programs, which is to benefit the common good and not someones bottom line. And anyway between massive bailouts and farm subsidies it's not like corporate America deserves or needs free labor. Plus compelling a group of students to labor in the fields benefiting some corporate profit margin or commodities speculator-would likely produce an entire generation of resentful Neo-Marxists. We're going to have enough troubles in the next few years without generating our very own, home grown, Hugo Chavez's. </p>
<p>Concerning curriculum, the president elects proposal addresses both academe and the public schools. And depending on the high school, yes some do offer introductory or AP courses in such advanced studies as nursing or sociology. At the higher ed institution and program wherein I currently work about 1/8 of the class enrollment is AP high school students. Basically they have run past the limited learning opportunities available in the secondary schools. So perhaps I should have explained that situation in more detail in the preceding posting.</p>
<p>Another layer of bureaucracy would be added in order to collect and monitor the service for college students (or it would be an unfunded mandate ... ). Who will decide what is acceptable in terms of the service work performed ... and how many kids will make up their supposed service, forge signatures, show up & do nothing ... etc. ... etc. I am all for creative ideas, but this one has too many problems associated with it (not the least of which is how to pay for it). Americorps students do real jobs that organizations would otherwise have to pay for. The service work proposed here would be jobs that ordinarily would be unpaid. I just don't see it happening.</p>
<p>I suspect a good number of parents here don't make $40 an hour ($80K per year per income earner, $160K household income for a two-parent family). And this proposed plan will pay the kids $40 bucks an hour to do community service? That doesn't sound right at all, not to mention that if you earn that rate, you wouldn't qualify for the credit under this plan. I'd feel better if Obama just goes ahead and proposes an increase in Pell grant, creating new grants, giveaways etc., whatever but, please, this is no community service! Most of the full-time employees of non-profit organizations make much less per hour than this! It just doesn't make sense!</p>
<p>I was posting to show one example of a proposal about college affordability that may be of interest to parents. To be sure, any proposal by the current, outgoing presidential administration or the new, incoming administration has to be approved by Congress, and it may not be enacted at all. But there does still seem to be parental demand for measures that make family out-of-pocket cost for attending college smaller, so issues like this will continue to be discussed among parents who can't just write a check for full list price for their children.</p>
<p>It's more than $40/hour. You're not paying state and local taxes, social security and federal income taxes. The $4,000 really doesn't cover the costs either. States are subsidizing community colleges and, as we can see in California, everything is on the table when it comes to cuts. States could reduce contributions to community colleges and use the $4,000 community service "grant" as an excuse for raising tuition.</p>
<p>I don't mind the concept of community service, but I see that it will likely be the schools responsibility to deal with all of this. And the fact is, many schools are already underfunded and understaffed. And the mandates of the things that schools are required to teach and/or provide just keep growing. While I like the idea in theory, it would be difficult to implement in the school district I work in. We are already cutting teachers. In order to provide this level of community service for every student a full time coordinator would need to be hired. Where is the money going to come from to do that?</p>
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From an economics perspective, it just provides an opportunity for colleges to raise their prices by $4,000 a year.
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<p>I agree with BCEagle about this. I also think it is just an opportunity for private colleges to gap 4k more in their financial aid packages. I think it may shift the burden from the college to offer this portion (4k) of a FA grant, to the the taxpayer to pay 4k of that private school education.</p>
<p>I still think the most cost effective way to help the most people is to find a way to cut public college tuition for all. That would reach more people than any other kind of program, and it would be "fair."</p>
<p>Required community service is a dopey idea that will just take away from those who sincerely want to help others because they believe it is the right thing to do. My kids had to do 20 hours of community service in middle school and they pretty much resented it because it was mostly timefilling, get another signature on my sheet kind of stuff. Later on in high school, they volunteered for things because it was their own idea and had life-changing experiences because of it. </p>
<p>During middle school, it was very difficult to find places that wanted 11-13 year olds' help. If you get a bunch of kids that age together, they end up horsing around and not much gets accomplished. Who is going to supervise all this community service? The parents? Most people already find that their time is stretched to the limit. Also, who is going to decide what type of community service is acceptable? If my kids volunteer for the local Republican party, is that going to be okay? I think forced volunteerism has a very negative effect on young people's attitudes. They should volunteer for causes they believe in and if they don't believe in anything, so be it.</p>
<p>Community service is frequently used as punishment by our court system. It saves money because incarceration takes resources and having someone pay a sentence of time is cheaper than locking them up in jail.</p>
<p>Community service is best when the person wants to do it and initiates it. Sometimes some of us will even spend thousands of our own money on community service projects because of the intangibles that come back to us.</p>
<p>To some extent, marketing may encourage more community service. But you are right about the infrastructure in projects. Someone has to provide it.</p>
<p>Define community service. That could be an issue. If I am the National Honor Society sponsor at my school, community service means school community. That means any of my NHS students who tutor regularly are performing community service, and some of those students will ring up 50 to 100 hours a year. Many of those same students will participate in the American Cancer Society events or organize blood drives, but all under the NHS banner. </p>
<p>So defining what community service is will be important. </p>
<p>My son feels, however, while the idea that Mr. Obama has is nice in principle, it could be abused. For example, it will favor students in upper middle income or high income tax brackets. Why? Many of those students do not work while in college, so they have the time to volunteer. A student who must work his way through college may have little or no time to volunteer.</p>
<p>Before any laws are passed, I certainly hope someone checks out the extent to which community service opportunities are actually available to middle school students. Most non-church activites near us require participants to be 14 and a whole lot of them want participants to be 16. Our middle school students tend to do things like helping out at the elementary school carnivals for community service hours. Somehow, I don't think helping wealthy PTAs make even more money is what Obama has in mind.</p>
<p>Also, although tutoring younger students is a popular idea, it doesn't work in our district. To be fiscally responsible, the elem, middle and high schools all share the same busses...so the elem schools get out a half hour before the middle schools and the middle schools get out a half hour before the high schools...it really doesn't work to have a high schooler who gets out of school at 4 doing "after school" tutoring to a grade schooler who gets out of schools at 3.</p>
<p>What bothers me is if tax payers are now helping private college endowments because schools will be able to gap the amount that they usually gap + the $4k, and keep their yield the same. If this is what will occur, I don't see this as helping a middle class family pay for college. I see it as another burden on the taxpayer. If this truly will help the middle class student and the low income student with college costs, it is worth exploring.</p>
<p>Here's a good one. My kids go to a "wealthy suburban high school." The seniors on drill team do a senior dance every year. They got it choreographed for free because a local hip hop choreogropher has enrolled in a college that requires community service hours....I really think folks think of "community service" as doing something for the less fortunate....</p>