Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to read this. I am a current senior in the U.S. who is currently planning on studying pre-Ned/neuroscience. I’ve applied to Duke and Chapel Hill, along with Boulder in Colorado.
I’ve always been interested in getting my education abroad, but I have so many questions. Is it possible for me to do part of my education (say undergraduate) in Canada and then come back to finish (med school) in the United States? Or, if I stayed in Canada, would I have a good chance of being successful (in general)? Pretty much I’d just love some insight into how the system works.
Thanks so much for any help!
Why do you want to do a full degree program outside the US? Would a semester or two abroad work?
I suppose. However, I just wanted to explore my options.
Med schools care about GPA and MCAT scores. Average undergraduate GPAs in Canada are usually around a 3.0, lower than comparable US schools. Canadian schools don’t have a pre-med support structure either. So, it would likely be harder for you to gain admission to a US med school from a Canadian undergraduate school. Admission to a Canadian med school is more difficult as well. The average GPA for admits to the University of Toronto med school was 3.96 this year. Compare to University of Michigan’s entering GPA of 3.79
AMCAS (MD programs) TMDSAS (all TX medical &dental programs) and AACOMA( all DO programs), the 3 centralized admission services for all US med schools, all recognize and accept Canadian transcripts.
However, all med school admission committees will still expect the same ECs from a Canadian grad as they do from a US grad–research, clinical volunteering IN THE US, physician shadowing IN THE US, on-going community service, teaching/tutoring/coaching experiences, and leadership roles in your activities.
You may not be able to engage in all of these expected ECs while attending college in Canada.
You will also have one other disadvantage–your LORs will come from individuals who are not familiar with the requirements of US med school LORs and will be from individuals who are not familiar names to US admission committees–causing your LORs to be examined with a more critical eye than they might otherwise receive.
As for attending med school in Canada–your odds are extremely poor. Medical school seats available for international students in Canada range for very few to none, depending on the specific school. (A US resident will be considered an international applicant at Canadian med schools.) UToronto, for example, accepts just 10 internationals each year, including MD/PhDs, while U Manitoba won’t consider internationals at all. Some Canadian med schools require proof you are bilingual in French/English.
If you want to spend time studying abroad–that’s what summers are for. Or you could take 1-2 years after college graduation to work/study/travel abroad. That’s not uncommon.
@WayOutWestMom Are you sure that the volunteering must be done in the US? I work with many college kids who do international volunteer and shadowing… they have no problem getting into med, dental or vet schools. In fact, more than one said that the international experience was something that came up often during their med school interviews.
The volunteering does not have to be done in the US. The Canadian medical system is fully recognized in the US. There are a few Canadian students in US medical schools. My son graduated from McGill and had a friend there, also an American, who was accepted at 3 of the 4 US medical schools to which he applied. His volunteering was mostly done in Montreal.
This is patently false. All Canadian medical schools are accredited by the AMERICAN accrediting board. Many Canadian faculty are American or received at least one American degree.
@katliamom International medical volunteering has fallen out of favor among US med school adcomms in the last few years. International medical volunteering is now derisively referred to as “voluntourism” and med school admission officers are increasingly critical of it for a number of very good reasons. Here’s an article outlining some of the reasons why international medical volunteerism has fallen out of favor. [7 Reasons Why Your Two Week Trip To Haiti Doesn’t Matter: Calling Bull on “Service Trips”](http://almost.thedoctorschannel.com/14323-2/)
Long term volunteering or volunteering by trained medical personnel is an entirely different matter. But even long-term medical volunteering outside the US doesn’t satisfy the purpose of US clinical exposure.
The purpose of physician shadowing and clinical volunteering is to gain an understanding/insider view of the medical system one will be practicing in for the bulk of their career. While some non-US clinical volunteering and physicians shadowing is OK, med school applicants are expected to be conversant with the realities of practicing in the US. Questions about problems and issues facing US/regional/state healthcare providers are asked about on some med school secondaries and are a staple of med school interviews.
As for vet and dental schools–I don’t know anything about their admission practices and so cannot address whether international volunteering helps or hurts.
You’re misunderstanding me. I realize all Canadian med school are accredited and recognized by the US. I don’t dispute that. (Several residency lengths are different though so getting licensed in the US after a Canadian residency–or vice-versa-- isn’t always straight forward.)
What I was saying is the med school adcomms tend to view LORs written by professors who they are not personally/professionally familiar are looked with greater skepticism than are letters from professors they have had previous experience with. Certain undergrads are feeder school for certain med schools. (Think state flagship–>state med schools). LORs are viewed in the light how well previous applicants that professor or health committee have recommended. So any letter from an unfamiliar source–whether it’s Canadian undergrad or relatively unknown LAC on the other side the country–is viewed more skeptically and given less weight than a LOR from known source.
And, yes, US clinical exposure is expected. American clinical practice and Canadian clinical practice isn’t exactly the same. The student can do most of their clinical volunteering in the Canada but without some US clinical experience, their application won’t get viewed favorably.
@WayOutWestMom. clearly, no one told Tufts Medical School, UCLA, Case Western or Washington Univ. of St. Louis, all of which recently accepted alums from the Uganda/Vietnam/ South Africa/India medical volunteering program with which these kids are associated, lol. And by recently, I mean, like last year! So no, these experiences haven’t fallen universally out of favor.
(Which doesn’t mean that international volunteering is some kind of a golden ticket. Many schools roll their eyes at this: rich white kids going on expensive programs to Costa Rica “to build houses for poor people” for two weeks and expect to be heralded as life-savers… But there are demanding international experiences involving pre-meds, pre-vets and pre-dental students, nursing and physical therapy students that are highly respected by top med schools. )
And anyway, that’s not what you claimed. You claimed US med schools “expect” US clinical experience. Unless you can show me a source from a school website where that’s spelled out, I’m going to agree with TomSr, that some of your statements above are not true.
Did these student also have US clinical exposure?
Were these student US citizens/permanent residents who solely had non-US clinical experience?
How about this from the longtime admission officer at a top 10 med school:
WUSTL advises it’s OK to supplement US clinical experience with international volunteering:
https://careercenter.wustl.edu/tools/Documents/ClinicalExperiencesHandout.pdf
AMSA advises pre-med students it’s OK to supplement US clinical volunteering with international volunteering:
https://amsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/PACE.doc
UWash
http://www.uwmedicine.org/education/md-program/admissions/applicants/shadowing
There are others, but I don’t have time to hunt them all down. It’s past dinner time here. If these don’t implicitly suggest that domestic clinical exposure is “expected” then I don’t what does.
Like I said, WUSL has accepted at least 2 students (maybe more, I only met 2) who volunteered/interned internationally with the program I mentioned earlier.
I don’t know whether they had or had not done other internships.
I have no idea what “medical MISSION work” is that you cited above. To me it has connotations of LDS religious missions so it’s not surprising schools may not want to “count” it.
In addition, most medical schools will want to see one, and often two, years in a US university before they consider your application.
We are getting a bit removed from the OP’s question. An American attending university in Canada will be evaluated on what his GPA and MCAT stats and related activities. Graduates of top Canadian schools (McGill, Toronto, UBC etc.) will be at no disadvantage.