<p>@International95 I wrote Amherst in that subforum before I got to thinking 
look where thinking has gotten me lol inner turmoil</p>
<p>Also, this might sound a bit pretentious or whatever, but how intellectual are the student bodies at each school? I was set on Uchicago bc of all the “great conversations” going on and exchange of ideas, etc. It’s kind of a weird criterion to have, but hey…I know Amherst has a good amt of athletes, what is that like? Bc when I visited Colgate, I wasn’t wowed by the athletes I met in the classes I’d gone to (Colgate is DI, not DIII though plus I know it’s less selective than amherst and barnard)</p>
<p>But you do, in fact, want to attend Amherst, don’t you? I think @dlcor1026 is right. If you had gotten into Amherst in RD, you would have enrolled at Amherst. On some level, you already know that is what you want, lol. Go for it. I just have a hard time imagining someone who is interested in Reed, UChicago to be similarly interested in Amherst as well. The culture is so different–both academically (think core vs open curr) and socially (what are sports?? vs I HATE WILLIAMS!!! WILLIAMS SUCKS AT FOOTBALL!).</p>
<p>"there’s the 5 college system and the bus to Northampton which I absolutely adore! "</p>
<p>There’s also a paved bike trail between Amherst College and Northampton. *-
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<p>ocflav, my daughter also loved U of Chicago, and turned it down in favor of Barnard. I think if you are looking for intense focus on academics, you will find it in Barnard classrooms. It seemed to me that the profs all think their job is to educate future PhD’s. I think the students tend to be internally driven and lean pre-professional. I think the NYC setting provides more than just access to internships. It also provides access to jobs and to a wide array of networking opportunities through social and volunteer activities. It’s a year round thing. </p>
<p>The second-class citizenship thing is bunk. If you choose Amherst, will you hold that opinion toward students at UMass, Hampshire, and Mt. Holyoke? Do you want to be among students who harbor that sort of opinion toward others? </p>
<p>Are you still waiting on the financial aid package? </p>
<p>What are the reasons beside perceived prestige or ranking that you would choose Amherst over other colleges?</p>
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<p>I’m sure plenty of Barnard students get internships outside NYC, so it would still be an issue for them, plus, most of the wealthier schools, which Amherst is, have stipends for living expenses for those students who get unpaid internships during the summer. Even if you can stay in your Barnard housing over the summer, and I’m not sure you can, it’s not free.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how many internships are done during the school year, that’s usually a pretty heavy load to add on to class work. I know many students occasionally get mini-internship over breaks, but those are often available locally even in more remote schools like Amherst - like observing in a hospital or working in some social service program in a local town. For those internships in more distant locations from campus, say in Boston, I’m sure they have some arrangements for you to stay somewhere - I can’t imagine they’re going to require you to find your own place for just a week or two.</p>
<p>Choosing between the two schools is a lot more about fit than opportunities and convenience. One will feel more right than the other, opportunities have a way of appearing once you’re happy in a place.</p>
<p>My daughter received funding from Barnard for a summer internship her first year – and she was working with paid part-time jobs all 4 years-- so of course many students can carry part-time internships during the school year. I think for my daughter the biggest benefit was the ability to earn money on her own-- plenty of options at Barnard, it would be hard outside of an urban setting.</p>
<p>I’m not here to advocate one over the other. I still think that the OP needs to have the financial aid package in hand before making any decisions – and I would hate to see her convince herself that she like Barnard better and then receive an award from Amherst that was too good to turn down – and then be stuck with feelings of being boxed in by money rather than overjoyed at the good news.</p>
<p>But I am disturbed by the number of posts here that seem to advocate Amherst by bashing Barnard-- or by pushing various myths or untruths about the school. Barnard is the most selective women’s college in the country; it is well known, highly prestigious, and well-regarded; it is an LAC and provides an environment that fosters close relationships between students, faculty and administration; and it’s close association with Columbia provide ready access to resources that exceed anything that a small-town LAC could provide. No buses to ride, no 10 or 15 minute walks needed to get to Butler Library.</p>
<p>That doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with other schools, but anyone who diminishes a Barnard education based on mistaken assumptions is simply not providing good advice. It would cost Barnard millions of dollars to even replicate a fraction of Columbia’s resources… but they can buy complete access for their students for $5 million a year. I don’t know what it costs a private college to maintain athletic facilities to support league sports - but I know that its a cost Barnard doesn’t shoulder. </p>
<p>There obviously are major campus culture and lifestyle differences between the schools. From what I have read, I think that a Barnard education is more demanding overall, largely as a function of the difference between a college with some serious distribution requirements (including 2 years of foreign language and a year of a lab science) - and a college with an open curriculum. Barnard also requires most of it students to write a senior thesis; I may be mistaken, but I believe that is an honors option but not a requirement at Amherst. My d. spent her first 3 years at Barnard dreading that thesis requirement – and then she spent her senior year absolutely loving it. There was something very special about the ability to immerse herself in a long-term, deep project all year as well as the opportunity to work closely with her thesis adviser and other faculty. I also did a thesis as an undergrad (in my case, not mandatory for all students but required for my particular major) – and I do think that it is an extremely valuable educational experience. </p>
<p>But of course an student in an open curriculum college has the opportunities to self-structure a curriculum that is as demanding as they want it to be. So on an individual level, those core or distribution requirements might not be as significant. </p>
<p>If finances are a big issue for the OP, then she really should go to the school that is most generous with funding, assuming a significant difference. She will also need to factor in transportation costs to/from the schools on top of other COA factors. (I don’t know about the OP – for me on the west coast the difference between a college served by a hub airport and one served by a regional airport could have been significant, given the way that airline tickets are priced.)</p>
<p>If it turns out that the financial aid is roughly equivalent, then the OP should be looking at fit factors, not “which college looks most impressive on a bumper sticker” factors. I don’t know about the OP – I think my own daughter would have been miserable at any campus outside a major urban center. But then, other than her UC safeties, my d. didn’t apply to any.</p>
<p>@calmom I really can’t thank you enough for all of your comments! Seriously, what you know about Barnard from your daughter’s experience is really helpful. I agree though; I haven’t seen many super informative comments about Amherst besides saying “it’s the best LAC” (which does have a bit of merit) and by diminishing Barnard…</p>
<p>Has the OP visited? I would strongly advice visiting Amherst before committing. My daughter was very excited about visiting Amherst. On paper it looked great; large endowment, small class size, open curriculum, 5 college consortium, and she had spent a lot time of time with the Amherst regional rep (a recent alum) and really, really liked him. After an extensive visit - classes, meetings with profs, attending student events, she didn’t like it. She felt it had too much of a ‘boarding school’ feel for her - whatever that means. You may love it and, of course, many do. But it’s small. You must visit.</p>
<p>Sight on seen, Barnard is the safer choice of the two. If you don’t like Barnard you have all of Columbia U., Morningside Heights and NYC. If you don’t like Amherst you have Amherst.</p>
<p>As an outside, fairly neutral observer (Barnard was the only all-women’s college I thought was worth my daughter’s time, but after looking, she said it wasn’t for her, and she didn’t have a chance at getting in Amherst.), I take note that the Barnard supporters hate the Barnard bashing, but aren’t noting all the Amherst bashing going on. I will say that so far, the Barnard supporters are making a better positive case for their school. Do Amherst supporters have no positive case, other than “We’re #1!”</p>
<p>(I could ask if Amherst is going to let itself get beat by a bunch of girls, but it’s a little past 1975 and no longer PC.)</p>
<p>I would sleep on this and let the answer comes to you. If prestige is a big deal to you, your subconscious will scream one school vs the other, despise what anybody says here.</p>
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Well, if something is “the best” – shouldn’t people be able to articulate what qualities it has that make it so, beyond the generic sort of observations that apply to to most similarly-sized LACs?</p>
<p>You can draw your own conclusions. I’m the sort of person who likes to have specifics – items that I can lay out on a spreadsheet or include on a list of pro’s and con’s. </p>
<p>Bottom line: the only question that is relevant is what is “best” for you – and that might not be the same as what is “best” for others. </p>
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Example please? I’ve seen some comments about Amherst’s size & location – and I commented about open curriculum vs. core/distribution requirements – and you (MrMom62) made a comment about the sports culture at Amherst – but I don’t really see anything in this thread that I would see as “bashing” Amherst. </p>
<p>I’ve made clear that I have no direct knowledge of Amherst and that I think that the OP should make a decision with financial aid in mind. Amherst does not rest their financial aid package on student loans, whereas Barnard does – so if both colleges see the OP’s “need” as the same, she should end up with a more generous award from Amherst. $20K in undergraduate loans is nothing to sneeze at.</p>
<p>On the other hand… private colleges seem to be remarkably inconsistent in how they tally up the information provided through the CSS Profile and the conclusions they reach. </p>
<p>@arwarw I did visit a few years ago and liked it. There seemed to be this very international feel to it. But also this visit was before I had read anything about amherst (ie CC & college guidebooks). Maybe that day I hadn’t been searching for confirmation bias? I am a bit worried about the potential boarding school feel though…I tried to see if I could organize an impromptu visit, but all the students are studying for finals right now sooo I don’t think the visit would exactly do it justice if everyone’s in the library. I think I’ll try talking wth some current students on the phone come Monday</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments. It’s a tough choice! No matter where I go, I suppose I could always transfer if unhappy…but that’s a whole 'nother deal though for a different day, different thread 
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<p>@calmom still waiting on fin aid as well. Didn’t realize Amherst doesn’t factor loans into its aid…</p>
<p>Just keep in mind that you need to look a the bottom line. </p>
<p>If the COA at 2 schools is $60K, and school A gives you a $40K grant and no loans, and school B. gives you a $42K grant and a $5K loan – then obviously the award from school B. is better, even though they also are asking for loans. (I think this relatively obvious, but because of the differences in the way that schools package and present financial aid, it can sometimes be difficult to figure out exactly what the school is offering). </p>
<p>And you are entitled to take out loans whether the school’s financial package expects it or not. If there is a gap between the school’s determination of need and your actual FAFSA EFC, you should be eligible for subsidized loans. </p>
<p>If you have a fairly straightforward financial situation, then its likely that the Amherst aid package will look better – you could use the net price calculators on the respective web sites to get a sense of things. But any sort of complicated issues (home equity, self employment income, divorced parents, etc.) … and then it gets a lot harder to predict. </p>
<p>@calmom yeah I’m definitely in that second category of hard to figure out the EFC lol but thanks anyway, my dad is slowly becoming fluent in decoding fin aid packages!</p>
<p>What were your awards from other colleges like? Ours were all over the map.</p>
<p>@calmom the awards were fairly similar with a few outliers. The yearly COAs for Colgate and Carleton were each around $11k after grants and loans, etc. Barnard was $15k. Carnegie Mellon and Kenyon were $20k. Grinnell and Colby were $13k. And Reed was $8k with no loans whatsoever (it was sooooo hard to turn down, but Reed just isn’t the place for me)</p>