Although May 1 is only about a week away, I still have not committed anywhere yet. One of the schools I am highly considering, though, is Barnard. I already went to one of their admitted student days, but I am still unsure if Barnard is where I want to go. If there are any current Barnard students or alumni on here, could you please answer some of my questions:
I am interested in majoring in either Math or Computer Science, but on the Barnard tour they told us only about 33% of their students are in STEM, and 25% of their students are majoring in a physical science. This means only up to 8% of the class would have the same major as me. Barnard also said that it is going to try to build up its own Computer Science Department in the next few years, but as of right now, that major is completely at Columbia.
Did anyone in either of these majors ever feel isolated because few of their Barnard classmates had similar academic interests as them? Since many of my classes would be at Columbia, did anyone also feel that it was difficult to keep up in Columbia’s classes? Do you find the rigor of Columbia’s STEM major classes to be more beneficial or overly stressful?
Multiple Barnard students also mentioned that they were sometimes looked down upon by Columbia students. How serious is this issue—is it just Columbia students making jokes about Barnard, or do any Columbia students ever demonstrate that they truly see Barnard students as less intelligent? In classes, would any of my peers refuse to work on problem sets with me, or even be hesitant to, if they realized I went to Barnard?
How much of an all girls school does Barnard feel like to you? Did Barnard’s connection to Columbia draw you to the school at all, and if so, did you try to remain integrated with Columbia throughout your time college, or did you mostly stick with Barnard by your junior or senior years?
Barnard’s Foundations curriculum, which started in the Fall of 2016, seems very humanities based. How restrictive do any STEM majors see the new curriculum? Did it ever prevent you from taking classes that you would have preferred to take instead, in order to meet a requirement? Does Foundations also block you from delving into your major as far as what you would have liked?
Have you ever used any of Barnard’s student services centers, and how helpful did you find them to be? Which one do you use most often? Also, how hard is it to find an internship (not research) through Barnard, even in freshman and sophomore year? Are most internships that students find paid or unpaid?
Are you able to utilize New York City as much as you had hoped? If you had an internship in the city during the year, did it ever require you to take the subway back alone at night? Did you also ever feel unsafe while exploring New York City?
Since my family qualified for very little financial aid, do you feel that the experience at Barnard is worth paying more than $70,000 a year?
Thank you very much for all of your answers! If you can’t answer all of my questions, can you please answer some of them. I know that I asked a lot of questions, and I appreciate the time you put into addressing them. Anything that you have to say is very helpful!
Not a student, however with respect to #1, 33% STEM is actually very high. UCSD was ranked #1 in big universities for having the most women in STEM fields in 2016… with 33% of women majoring in one of those fields. Computer engineering there accounts for 9%, and it is a major program at that school. At Barnard there would be a significant number of classmates in similar fields for you. Unless you are comparing to a heavy STEM school like CalTech… #5 Barnard just hired the guy from U Chicago who was instrumental in designing their internship program. He specializes in relationships with employers, and when I spoke to him a few weeks ago, he seemed positively giddy at the opportunities in NYC for Barnard students. A friend’s child is a 2nd year at Barnard, majoring in something like Religion and Women’s Studies. She has had a paid internship all school year. The job itself is volunteer, but she applied for a grant from the school and that pays her salary. #6 Recently in NYC and riding the subways. I don’t like big cities, but the subways felt incredibly safe to me. I’m not sure there is much “alone” in the subway. At 4:30pm, our train was full, with many elementary and middle school school children traveling unaccompanied. Obviously it’s less crowded late at night, but I can’t imagine an internship going much past 7 anyway, which is still a very busy time. #7 Obviously this is a family decision, but there are many many opportunities in NYC and at Barnard, but you need to be willing to take them. For me, my daughter has always hustled and made the most of every opportunity she could find (or create), so paying for an LAC in an area with so many resources seems worth it to us. Honestly, with her brother, who is much more relaxed and happy to sit around, it wouldn’t be worth the extra cost compared to our good state schools.
2 IF there are Columbia students who look down on Barnard students, they are extreme minorities. When you are sitting in the classroom, people don't know who's from Columbia and who's from Barnard. (except if you are a male taking a Barnard class, they know...)
If the Barnard students feels somehow inferior to Columbia students, they might feel (or interpret) small little things as “being looked down on”. My daughter is a super confident girl (or maybe just oblivious?) and never really feels those attitude from Columbia kids.
3 My daughter's life at Barnard is so integrated with Columbia she feels like she is going to co-ed school. When she comes back to her dorm, she feels like she is in a women's sanctuary.
6 She is enjoying the whole NYC!!! She feels safe and when she is out at night, she takes Uber.
@OwlArtist – I am the parent of a Barnard alum. Here are my thoughts:
1 Feeling isolated:
Try to understand that Barnard = Columbia. If you attend Barnard you will also be socializing with and making friends with Columbia students, even if they will be living in different dorms. Hard to feel “isolated” in that setting unless you are self-isolating.
Class rigor: Again Barnard = Columbia. Courses on both sides of the street have similar level of rigor and expectations. At an individual class level there is considerable variation – some profs are more relaxed, some are more demanding. But overall or on average --no difference.
2 Columbia/Barnard rivalry:
My daughter never reported any issues with Columbia vs. Barnard rivalry. She is now married to a Columbia grad.
5 Barnard Services
My daughter sang the praises of Barnard’s career office – she said the career workshops offered her senior year were the most valuable thing she got out of college (and did not mean that in any way to demean the academics). My daughter now mentors current Barnard seniors.
6 My daughter was all over the city, at all times. That includes subways and walking at all hours of the night. Much later than internship hours because my daughter worked as a Barnard Bartender. But if you are worried about safety and your parents can afford full pay, then you can opt to take cabs or a car service if you are ever uncomfortable.
7. I personally don't think any college is worth $70K a year -- which is more than I earn in a year. But assuming your parents can afford it, my question would be what are your other choices, and at what cost?
Hi @divarose , @HiToWaMom , and @calmom , thank you all for your replies. They are very helpful in answering my questions about Barnard.
To calmom, the other option I am also considering is my state school because their in-state tuition is under $30,000, and I was accepted into their scholars program. One aspect I like better about Barnard, though, is that it is located in New York City, while my state school is in a rural area. Although I expressed some concerns about NYC in my questions, I am excited about the chance to go to college in such a lively city. I would definitely prefer a metropolitan environment over feeling stuck in the middle of nowhere. My state school also does not seem to offer as much student support if I were to need it, nor is it as nationally recognized as Barnard, so in making my decision I am wondering if Barnard would be more beneficial in the long run in helping me find a job.
62% of Barnard students are full pay, so plenty of families have decided the cost is well worth it.
A lot depends on family finances, and that is really something that you need to discuss with your parents. It is one thing if your family has the money available a 529 account or in other savings, quite another if your parents would need to take out loans-- and another thing still if they would be exhausting resources and you have younger siblings.
I’m assuming you must have known before you applied that your family would not be eligible for a lot of aid – but if you and your parents really expected that you would qualify for more aid – then maybe it’s best to stick to the original budget. When my daughter applied I really had no idea what to expect because of a complicated financial situation. Barnard’s offer was more generous than any other private college, and really was the only offer that reduced our cost to the level that I was comfortable paying. So if your parents had an expectation financially - and that is not being met – then maybe you do need to re-eavaluate.
But if the problem is that you applied to several more prestigious colleges – for example Columbia and other Ivies – and your parents would have been ready and willing to pay full freight for them – but now you are wondering whether Barnard is good enough because it isn’t as prestigious – the answer is yes, Barnard is worth every cent as compared to any Ivy. I think the quality of education is as good as any top college,and honestly I think the overall quality of education at Barnard is better than Columbia for undergraduates, because of the more supportive faculty and administration and better quality of advising. Or to put it another way, full-pay Barnard students get more value than Columbia students.
As I posted above, I think Barnard’s career office is wonderful, but no one can guarantee you a job when you graduate. Most students who graduate from state colleges also find jobs. It also depends on long term plans. Do you want to work in NYC? or go wherever life takes you? or do you hope to return to your home state after college?
Something that caught my attention was the state school in a rural area… We know several Barnard students that are working at an internship during the school year, and one student mentioned how it is easier to get these positions with fancy companies during the school year versus the summer, when competition greatly increases. Internships do help with refining interests and making connections, and that helps with future career prospects. Most rural areas would have fewer opportunities. This was a factor in the decision for my child.
My D’s friend from Barnard (freshman) has paid summer internship lined up in Manhattan. Another friend (also freshman) is doing unpaid internship during the school year. I thought internships were for upperclasswomen!
My daughter didn’t do any school-year internships-- just paid work – but she did have internships after her first & second years. But not in Manhattan. Barnards was helpful in many ways - including as a source of grant funding for the first internship – but DD could have gotten either internship from any other college.
So it really depends on the student – both on the degree to which the student is proactive and individual interests and goals. NYC is full of opportunities but my son attended a regional state public in a fairly isolated area of California and ended up with a funded semester-long internship in Washington DC – so there are opportunities everywhere.
My D2 was there for 1.5 years, around when @calmom’s daughter was there. And another relative was attending Columbia just before that. Here’s my take, FWIW:
I think it might be an advantage, actually, socially to be in mostly-Columbia classes. The tech-oriented classes will likely be tough, no doubt about it. Other relative was in STEM at Columbia (but not CS), wound up switching to easier major.
My D did have some negative experiences in this regard. However, if you do encounter it (and it seems from here that many don’t), I’m guessing that it would tail off after freshman year. And you may not encounter it at all . Remember, no place is perfect.
I think it depends partly on how much of your classes and activities are at Columbia. In all schools, basically, a lot of social relationships/ dalliances form in the dorms. Barnard underclassmen do not share dorms with Columbia students (basically) and do not have “swipe access” to Columbia dorms. They can and do meet Columbia students socially but not in this most typical way. As an upperclassman you will be spending a lot of time fulfilling your major, so I guess continuing academic interaction then depends how much of such coursework will be at Columbia. Degree of social interaction will likely depend on who your friends are, by then.
can’t comment, don’t know
Can’t comment
One can’t help “utilizing” New York city, it is not even an option. The city is pretty safe these days, I wouldn’t worry about that at all. Other relative who was at Columbia had a summer internship that would have continued to the school year, but he couldn’t do it because he had too much school work to do. D had good on-campus jobs and activities.
depends on how much that particular experience will help you grow and thrive, vs. the other choice. Which may be unknowable now. And how much the $$ means to your parents and their eventual retirement plans. They have nothing better to invest in than their children, but they still need to retire.
Regarding your state school option, my family’s experience is being “in the middle of nowhere” may be less of a problem if the school is large. And it may have a sense of campus-centeredness that is relatively lacking at Barnard, and that you might like in the alternative. My D1 passed up a free ride at our state university to attend an LAC, because didn’t like the people who were going there, not as intellectually challenging, didn’t want to stay in that state, other reasons. I wouldn’t mind having that $$ in my pocket now. She is doing ok, but no way to know if any better than if she went to state u. If you do go the state school route, pledge yourself to excelling there. Top students from the state u’s might get lots of the same opportunities as many get from the privates. But to get that equivalence you need something to signal you are a top student from there, vs. another in the pack. IMO.
Actually now that I think about it, CS recruiting at state school may actually be better than at Barnard which is not known for CS and will have relatively few CS graduates to interview. My understanding is Columbia and Barnard have separate recruiting offices. You might check into that, if you care. I doubt you would wind up jobless though, with CS out of Barnard, anyway.
Thank you to everyone who has responded to this thread. Your answers were all very informative. I ultimately decided on my state school. I will miss the empowering atmosphere I felt at Barnard, and I also will miss living in New York City and experiencing the different resources that the city offers. In addition to a lower cost, though, my state school’s scholars program also has a specialized path for Math majors, and the program is made of a small group of students inside of a big school, similar to how Barnard’s relationship to Columbia seems, so I hope that these factors will make up for its lower prestige and rural location.
Good luck, and thank you for sharing your decision.
I do think that finances are a very important part of the equation. I am grateful for the generous financial aid that my daughter received from Barnard, which enabled her to attend a college that was otherwise well beyond our means.
My boss in my last job had a doctorate from a good institution in his field. He was a brilliant guy. He attended college at a completely unknown (to me) regional state university of no repute.
At one point I asked him about it. He said he was accepted to U Chicago but his parents couldn’t afford to send him there. So he went to the local u, where he excelled. Because he stood out he was able to get good opportunities there, which led to his grad school admission.
The moral is, there is more than one way to skin the proverbial cat.
Hope you wind up loving it there, and make the most of what it offers.
We have family members in the Barnard Classes of 2015 and 2019, so it is ver recent/current. A few observations having spoken to them.
My niece did summer internships going into her junior and senior years. One was on Wall Street for which she was paid. The other was unpaid and for the UN. For the unpaid UN internship, she received a grant from Barnard and subsidized summer housing. They also adjusted her summer earnings expectation. She said that there were many summer internships available but you have to start early and be pro-active. "Handshake," Barnard's employment portals, lists literally hundreds of opportunities.
As for "multiple Barnard students also mentioned that they were sometimes looked down upon by Columbia students", I am surprised to read this and can only conclude that these was a bigger issue in the past than at present. My D. and other family members and friends who have attended Barnard have reported no problems, save for the occasional snarky comments (and Barnard women are capable of being just as snarky as CC ones). My D. had friends at Columbia and participated in many Columbia activities. I think this is a vastly exaggerated issue.
The member of my family in the Class of 2019 reports that now all the talk is of the larger university community. There is a huge focus on taking advantage of the vast opportunities provided by being part of such a large university. And my D. said she especially enjoyed the contributions of students from the School of General Studies who were older and had what she described as "great" perspectives.
Financial aid continues to be strengthened. The summer internship program now allows many students to undertake unpaid summer internships and receive funding and subsidized housing etc.