<p>How about some opinions on Amherst vs an Ivy (such as Harvard)? Pros and cons, especially from people considering both choices right now or current students at Amherst who had this choice to make in the recent past.</p>
<p>picked A over D'Mouth and Columbia, and I know a lot of people here who picked it over H, Y and P. At A you'll get smaller classes, drastically more accessible profs, a tighter community, and, in my opinion, the best possible environment in which to be an undergrad. Ivies have merits, to be sure, but don't get sucked in by the name. Best of luck.</p>
<p>relevent: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=46786&page=1&pp=20%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=46786&page=1&pp=20</a></p>
<p>Attached is an article about a girl who transfered from Harvard to Amherst and prefers Amherst.</p>
<p>Of course being banished to the bench at Harvard was a teeny factor in the move to a teeny-tiny in this case!</p>
<p>The "small pond" appeals to some fish.</p>
<p>Byerly, you sound like NYCFan, if you know who that is. His MO: Undermine anything that goes against Harvard.</p>
<p>Daddo, an amherst news report mentions that kids are happier at amherst than at ivy schools, based on COFHE data.</p>
<p>Harvard students are less happy in general according to the COFHE.</p>
<p>I'll send you the links, daddo.</p>
<p>byerly: how demeaning. i'm not trying to start anything at all, but it's not like people who go to the small liberal arts colleges are kids from podunk, usa with zero potential. maybe when you go to college, individuals with more character and humility will knock you down a few notches.</p>
<p>good luck in whatever you pursue.</p>
<p>Don't everybody get defensive, Look, for an athlete, it is important to play. And if you're not going to start at Div. I, then Div. III makes sense for you. </p>
<p>Happens all the time. </p>
<p>Doesn't make any difference whether its Harvard, or Princeton, or Michigan. Athletes transfer down all the time so they will get a chance to start - and maybe to star.</p>
<p>The teeny tinies look to attract disgruntled Ivy players, and the Ivies, in turn. look to attract Big Ten dropouts etc..</p>
<p>I didn't see what was so offensive about saying:</p>
<p>"The 'small pond' appeals to some fish." </p>
<p>I love Amherst too, but let's not get hypersensitive, eh? :)</p>
<p>I understand about the big Ivies (especially Harvard), but what about Dartmouth vs. Amherst. This is maybe (along with Swarthmore) my biggest consideration.</p>
<p>Dartmouth is larger than Amherst (which is smaller than I realized), but is obviously undergraduate focused and has a strong sense of community. I don't know if I like greek emphasis at Dartmouth, but it seems quite avoidable if it gets out of hand (it also may be quite tame).</p>
<p>In the end, it comes down to a (if not the) top LAC knocking off a middle-range, small Ivy.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input,
Nickleby</p>
<p>dartmouth has a binge-drinking problem and i dont think it's tame. this is heresay, of course, but one of the ppl my dad works with has a son there and he confirms that they drink loads.</p>
<p>They drink loads at ALL rural LAC-like colleges. Have you ever checked out the Amherst TAP scene? Or been to Williams on an average weekend?</p>
<p>It's personal preference. If you don't want to, you don't have to.</p>
<p>Why do you think that is? Nothing else to do?</p>
<p>Well, personally I think it has something to do with the student bodies. At LAC's, you'll find intelligent students who also tend to be pretty laid-back and fun-loving, and want what most consider to be "the college experience" also. This is as opposed to MIT-types who (stereotypically) are geniuses who are completely focused on their math-science work, and get their kicks with things like high-tech pranks. Or maybe ultra-liberal, mellow, Wesleyan types who prefer the pot scene. No judgment- the student bodies just tend to differ that way.</p>
<p>Sure, part of it is location. If you're in a campus "bubble" situation, you'll probably have more of a campus community, and also more drinking. It's not like students at Columbia don't drink- they just don't get a bad rep for frat drinking because they do it in various bars throughout the city.</p>
<p>Also note that drinking at LAC's is a lot better than drinking in some of the places down South or at Big 10 schools, where students go completely overboard. You'll hear tons about binge drinking at UMiami or Central Kentucky- to the point of students dying. While LAC's aren't immune, I've noticed less drinking to that extent at these schools.</p>
<p>Again, as always, there are many on campus who do not drink as well and are perfectly content. There are many other activities to keep you occupied.</p>
<p>Yeah, I went to Columbia because I didnt want a "drinking school" then I realized that in NYC, besides the occasional concert, all people do is drink! So I transferred to Dartmouth, and yeah I went to parties on weekends, but I also did a ton of other stuff. And there is a huge non-greek scene. I never felt bored, in fact I didnt even have a TV most of my time there, I was having too good a time...it was awesome.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why do you think that is? Nothing else to do?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Williams, Amherst, and Dartmouth all have high binge drinking rates, at or above the national averages.</p>
<p>Things that correlate with a heavy drinking culture in the surveys are: northeast, rural, white, wealthy, fraternities, and athletes.</p>
<p>Swarthmore's surveyed binge drinking rate is drastically lower than any of these three schools, a number supported by the few instances of alcohol poisoning hospitalizations. I don't know Harvard's rate, but I suspect that it is much closer to Swarthmore's than Williams/Amherst/Dartmouth.</p>
<p>the 1999 COFHE survey, 30% Swarthmore's freshman hadn't drank in the previous year and 43% hadn't drank in the last 30 days. The average freshman reported drinking 14 times a year, or about every other weekend. The drinking rates increase a big for sophmores, then juniors, then seniors.</p>
<p>What's interesting is that Swarthmore has the most lenient enforcment. There is no ban on alcohol in dorms and alcohol is freely available at campus parties without any real effort to check ages.</p>
<p>If the statistics you cite are correct, Swarthmore is more the exception than the norm. And... Duh... If no one drinks in the first place, there would be no need for regulation and restrictions. </p>
<p>I wonder if more Swatties resort to drugs than to alcohol:</p>
<p>P.S. You spend far too much time on this website. It's really quite scary.</p>
<p>P.P.S. Please provide data supporting your claim that AWD have above average binge-drinking rates. Also, where is your proof that rural, white, athletes, fraternities etc are associated with higher binge drinking. Has someone built a regression model that predicts binge drinking rates? Didn't your Williams education teach you to support your claims with solid scientifically based evidence? I want numbers!!!!</p>
<p>That's right - I'm bringing it on !!!!</p>
<p>There are two main sources for drinking rate data at US colleges.</p>
<p>The biggie is the Harvard School of Public Health surveys, now conducted three times (1993, 1997, 1999) by Henry Weschler et al. This is the definitive research on college drinking. Here are links to each of the three surveys as publich in the Journal of American College Health:</p>
<p>There are links in each report to the key data, including breakdowns by race, gender, location of college, selectivity of college, residential fraternity, etc.</p>
<p>Wenschler is not allowed to publish the data for participating schools, but the information is available to the colleges and appropriate researchers. My knowlege of the general range of several schools comes from someone who has worked with the data. I do not have specific percentages, but I know that Swarthmore's binge rate is somewhere around 30% -- comfortably in Weschler's "low-binge rate" category. Amherst and Williams about 15% higher -- at or above the national average -- and solidly in the Weschler's "medium binge rate" category. This is little surprising because "highly selective" schools tend to have the second lowest binge drinking rates. There is a very strong correlation between binge-drinking in high school and college binge-drinking.</p>
<p>The second source of the data is the bi-annual surveys conducted by the COFHE member schools -- 30 of the very top private universities and colleges in the country. Under their COFHE agreements, colleges can publish their OWN data, but not data for other schools. The percentages I mentioned in the previous post came from a Swarthmore publication. </p>
<p>You would have to ask the Office of Institutional Research at Amherst and Wiliams to provide the same COFHE data on alcohol at their schools. Since the Presidents of both Williams and Amherst have expressed serious concern about alcohol problems at their schools in the last few year, I am certain they have looked at the data. At Williams, the problem has been severe enough that the Board of Directors held a special meeting on the subject after last year's homecoming. I believe that Amherst's 2002 homecoming produced several serious alcohol related fights with students requiring medical treatment for injuries as serious as stab wounds and triggered some pretty strong comments from the President.</p>
<p>bump.........</p>
<p>Are you visiting Amherst this weekend gatsby?</p>