<p>If you had the option to attend both, which would you prefer/choose? Why? thanks peepz</p>
<p>Gatsby, that is a question where I have seen it go either way on the choice. I would pick Amherst because it is closer to some major cities and other colleges. But I know a number of kids would pick Dartmouth. An enviable choice to have to make.</p>
<p>Arguably the best LAC vs arguably the best university. Tough choice. They are significantly different. Dartmouth is more rural. Amherst is a small college in a mid sized town...but UMass and several other small LACs are within spitting distance. Dartmouth is a small university in a Hanover is a small town. You can't go wrong with either.</p>
<p>Amherst abolished on campus fraternities in 1984.</p>
<p>Dartmouth has a very active fraternity-sorority scene.</p>
<p>If you are interested in the Greek system as a housing/social option, this may effect your decision.</p>
<p>DD and I did back to back overnights at A&D last fall - she stayed in a dorm, while I schlepped around town.
Two caveats - it was a beautiful fall day when we were in Hanover, and while the trees, etc were lovely in Amherst, it was rainy; also, DD picked Dartmouth.</p>
<p>AWS and Dartmouth really are a group, despite other groupings trying to take precedent ;). A & D have more similarities than differences, with the main ones being related to size differences, including the slightly higher profile of D-I athletics, and location, and the Greeks as discussed above. At Dartmouth the campus seemed as lively, or livelier than the town, at Amherst the town was definitely livelier than campus. Interestingly, the students I spoke with seemed more caught up in talking about classes at Amherst, but my daughter's experience in the dorm was just the opposite - she really noticed that at Dartmouth when the kids got together to socialize in the dorm, several people had study materials, while at Amherst, she didn't see anyone studying (the World Series might have played a role in that ;)).
Both schools have had housing issues and are taking steps to address them - Amherst's are farther along, those amazing new freshman dorms that the class of 08 had, will be completed so I think all the 09s will be in the freshman quad in new dorms - the seniors my daughter stayed with were a little disgruntled about that!
Both groups of students seemed equally happy and content with their school (except those seniors who had truly gotten the bad end of the housing problem) - there has to be something to write about in the school news - at Dartmouth it is the continual back and forth between admin and the Greeks, at Amherst it was the 5 College Consortium. Both are amazing schools.</p>
<p>All great advice and totally accurate.</p>
<p>I would only add, anecdotally, my daughter visited both--ended up at Dart like Cangels daughter--my daughter claimed to have been put off by the admin at Amherst. She thought they were cold and a bit snobbish. She visited a second time with our encouragement and said it was even worse the second time.</p>
<p>She may have just had a bad experience. But I trust her intuition better than my own in most cases. Her mother and I really liked Amherst in principal: nice town, closer to our home, great rep, nice size etc.</p>
<p>This is so personal. You have to see which feels better, because they are otherwise very similar.</p>
<p>Dartmouth. Bigger, better resources, nicer campus/surrounding area. Just my opinion.</p>
<p>My seminar professor last term taught at Amherst last year. He once mentioned that he didn't like the atmosphere there, saying something about the fact that it wasn't a very conducive intellectual environment, whereas he was much happier at Dartmouth. This is obviously hearsay, but I thought it was interesting. Concerning people socializing while still doing some studying...I don't see that too much, but what I can say is that at Dartmouth, making yourself seem dumber than you are is frowned upon. People here definitely like to party a lot, but it's just as common hearing people arguing about Shakespeare or something as talking about which parties they are going to hit up that night.</p>
<p>This may not be an appropriate question, but I am a bit concerned about excessive alcohol consumption at many of the better colleges and universities. While I am hardly a teetotler, the idea of binge-drinking and the like are unsettling to me as a parent. I do believe that my daughter has the ability to make up her mind about such things, but feel it might possibly detract in some ways if such activities are pervasive. Between Amherst, Dartmouth, Brown and Williams, which are possibilities for her, can any of you who know more about this than I certainly, provide a sense of the "party" scene -- I mean the "excessive" party scene -- at these schools? I am sure I am acting a bit too protective.....</p>
<p>I'll go out on a limb here, and say it is more of a "concern" at Dartmouth and Williams, than Amherst, I know very little about Brown. But all of that is relative, in the sense that there is a lot of drinking on almost all college campuses, and the freshmen/sophs are the most vulernable. My daughter who is headed to Dart is a confirmed teetotaller who originally didn't want a Greek school, but despite many discussions on fit and this issue, is excited about going. I will say this, the Dartmouth community is engaged in a lively discussion in the student daily about this Greeks, drinking and social life, which I think is a very positive sign, although most of the student rhetoric is concerned about the admin interfering with student social life, not the dangers of drinking yourself insensible.
Lest you think I'm letting Amherst off too easy - I think it is party central for the 5 college consortium.</p>
<p>YaleDad, where were you when they were serving grain alcohol punch at those Yale parties?.....There will always be drinking on college campuses, but I can't help thinking that the more rigorous an academic environment, maybe the less drinking there will be? Maybe I'm naive on the subject....but how can you write a good paper with a serious hangover? (rhetorical question!)</p>
<p>dke, unfortuntately, it doesn't seem to work that way. D's first week after freshman orientation last year at Rice someone threw up from the floor above all over the entrance floor to her dorm room! Drinking at Rice is huge- she seems to be a responsible drinker, fortunately.</p>
<p>My d. rejected Williams (my alma mater) in part because of mid-week drinking she witnessed firsthand - it may have been atypical (though a special meeting of the college trustees was called to consider efforts to curb drinking, so it is a big "concern", and they have had an unusually large number of alcohol-related ER visits.) Anyway, that's what she saw. The Thursday and Saturday night parties at Amherst are almost legendary - they are the center of the 5-college drinking scene, or so it is said. We didn't actually see them, but if you open the local paper, you see an awful of alcohol-related police events.</p>
<p>There are plenty of teetotalers at all of these schools, and my d. is not a principled abstainer. The question is the impact it has on the rest of college life. Best bet is always to try to check it out for oneself.</p>
<p>but wouldn't the lack of frats and sororities make a big difference for Amherst compared to say, Dartmouth?</p>
<p>
[quote]
YaleDad, where were you when they were serving grain alcohol punch at those Yale parties?.....There will always be drinking on college campuses, but I can't help thinking that the more rigorous an academic environment, maybe the less drinking there will be? Maybe I'm naive on the subject....but how can you write a good paper with a serious hangover? (rhetorical question!)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Quite the opposite, actually...the more rigorous the academic environment, the more drinking brought about by stress if nothing else.</p>
<p>As someone who has lived in Amherst my entire life, I can tell you that it is a wonderful town with a whole bunch of resources nearby. It's lovely, the campus is amazing, the school is loaded and provides a ton for the kids, and anyone can cross register at UMass, Hampshire, Smith, and Mount Holyoke, each school with its own wealth of offerings and opportunities. The Amherst environment is also lovely, and the school is incredible.</p>
<p>GO AMHERST!</p>
<p>I disagree to an extent. Of course, drinking is going to take place on every campus and there is nothing wrong with that. But I do not believe that academic rigor and drinking are necessarily related. Drinking is not an issue at the University of Chicago, UC Berkeley, MIT, CalTech and Swarthmore etc...all of which are considered pretty intense academically. I thinking drinking is a function of having limited socializing options. Schools like Cornell, Williams and Dartmouth are rather secluded and have very limited options to counteract the demanding academic expectations. In those schools, drinking far more prevalent than at schools located in larger cities, where entertainment and socializing options are more readily availlable. Just an obesrvation.</p>
<p>Um, MIT and Caltech most definetly have drinking problems, people just keep it behind the scenes more than at larger state universities.</p>
<p>Funny Alexandre, a friend of mine is a Chicago alum (1999) and we hung out all night tonight. Honestly, he regrets that he didnt apply to Princeton or Dartmouth. Why? Because as much as D and P might have social options like "drinking" the schools also create a sense of community that a place like Chicago will never have. He said his reunion had about a 20% turnout. He also said people didn't really keep in touch after they graduate. To this day I am invited to gatherings in multiple cities every weekend. Tonight I probably hung out with 10 Dartmouth alums, and not all of them knew each other before, yet they are all one degree of seperation apart. The communities of top notch people that the ivies/LACs create are absolutely unique and absolutely great.</p>
<p>Slipper, I do not recall saying that Dartmouth, Cornell and Williams (or any other Ivy or LAC for that matter) do not have good social scenes. I do not believe they are necessarily unique or the best in that regard as you do, but they are certainly good. I was merely commenting that in isolated campuses located in rural settings, social options are limited to drinking and partying.</p>