<p>I’ve been seriously considering both schools for early decision, but the one think that worries me is the drinking culture on both campuses. I’m a moderate drinker, but it’s not a huge part of my social life. Compared to other top LACS (williams, bowdoin, etc.) is there more partying at these schools? How do they compare to each other? Middlebury is more rural, which makes me think that there might be more drinking, but it also has more students, which makes it more likely that there will be other moderate drinkers.</p>
<p>It’s the same thing at every school, except for maybe WVU or Florida State or something. You don’t have to drink if you don’t want to. There will be other things to do at either campus. Don’t let that dissuade you from either college.</p>
<p>Those schools were my top two choices in April this past spring. First, I’d highly recommend visiting both schools as their surroundings are vastly different. Before visiting, I thought I’d enjoy rural Vermont, and while it looked like I expected it to, my feelings about the place were not expected. Back to your question-- Several things come to mind about Amherst’s drinking culture versus Middlebury’s. Amherst is among the most diverse of liberal arts colleges, and while Middlebury has a sizeable percentage of internationals, it is not need-blind to internationals as Amherst is, and I would guess that as a result, Midd is less attractive to internationals. Speaking as someone who lives in sub-free at Amherst, most internationals are clustered in sub-free, so you’re likely to find a lot of non-drinkers just by looking to international students. This isn’t to say that the drinking scene has a significantly larger presence at Midd, though; I didn’t stay long enough to know what it’s like on a weekend-to-weekend basis at Midd. However, I can tell you that people who don’t drink at Amherst seem to do just fine. The point is to surround yourself with those with similar interests, and I feel that whoever you are, there is enough diversity (in all senses of the word) to do that at Amherst.</p>
<p>There are around 120 international students at Amherst (total), and around 240 international students at Middlebury (total). Amherst has around 1,700 students, and Midd has around 2,400 students. International students make up a greater percentage of the student body at Middlebury than they do at Amherst, despite the fact that Amherst maintains that it is need-blind for international students. Both schools meet the full demonstrated need of all accepted international students. Middlebury’s strength in foreign language instruction and international studies makes it very popular among international students.</p>
<p>D and I visited both campuses, and while Middlebury was the more gorgeous due to the waterfalls, etc., luckily, we went during “mud season” and that cured us both of the rural area. Car got stuck and we had to get pulled out. Everything is so far away! Picturesque, yes, but…Amherst is beautiful, as well, and everything is close by. Gives you the stereotypical New England feel and the opportunity to get away whenever you feel the need. As for drinking, D lived in sub free and made many good friends that are still her friends even though she already graduated. She had friends who did not live in sub-free and they never pressured her to drink, even at their parties. It really is the feel of the place. Go visit both. D spent a weekend at Mid and also at Amherst. She loved her time at Amherst.</p>
<p>I’ve visited both school, and really liked both. I’m very seriously considering applying early to Amherst, but the one thing that worries me is that I’m not an athlete, and I’m worried about cliquishness in the student body. </p>
<p>When I was at Amherst, I felt like I’d fit in, but some of the things I’ve read about students’ focus on athletics and partying have worried me a little. Any thoughts on those concerns?</p>
<p>I’ve *heard<a href=“read:%20don’t%20know%20for%20sure”>/I</a> that Amherst is less “jock-y”/clique-ish than Williams, and that Amherst has a more dominant arsty student body.</p>
<p>I’m visiting both this weekend, so I can get back to you when I get back. Although, we only have enough time for the tour for Amherst, and we’re only going to Williams’ tour and info session. But I’ll let you know regardless.</p>
<p>OP, D is a junior at Amherst. I can assure you that everyone fits in somewhere. Of course there is an athlete and a party scene at Amherst, but that is no different than any other college (save a few such as BYU.) Even with the small student body you will find other like minded people to be friends with.</p>
<p>“the one thing that worries me is that I’m not an athlete, and I’m worried about cliquishness in the student body.”</p>
<p>And that’s a perfectly legitimate and well-founded fear, especially because Amherst, Williams, Midd, etc., are all NESCAC schools.</p>
<p>However, out of all these schools, Amherst has taken the strongest and most aggressive stance toward realizing genuine diversity in its student body. This you should keep in mind too.</p>
<p>I have 2 sons at Midd.
Both looked at Amherst and Williams(and Dartmouth and Harvard etc etc) Neither are big drinkers and they don’t smoke pot.
One is very athletic-recruited and the other is a geek. They are both playing intramural soccer on the same team and having a blast. No one cares that brother A can’t kick a ball to save his life.
As for the mud thing, where in the world were you driving? I just spent a very nice weekend at Midd eating in fabulous restaurants, enjoying the beautiful scenery, and eating the excellent cafeteria fare. We drove on paved roads to a state park and had a great hike on maintained trails.
Midd has more students, so more different people to meet and hang out with.
They all are fab schools and if you get into more than one, you’re lucky and smart!</p>
<p>Amherst seemed more preppy to my boys, Williams a bit more “beery”.</p>
<p>I don’t think it matters. There will be students who drink at both and students who don’t and students who drink more and students who drink less. There is no way to gauge something like this from a visit. Choose based on other criteria. The drinking element will be what you make it.</p>
<p>A few previous threads might be useful as you consider the social dynamics at Amherst and the preppy/athletic part of campus that you’re talking about.</p>
<p>Partying:
The social scene is what you make of it. For those who do like to go out on the weekends, parties tend to happen in dorms, and are especially concentrated in the suite-style housing called the “Social Quad.” Because these dorms are suite style, they are favored by groups of friends and teams who (often, though by no means always) turn the common room into a party venue on the weekends. It is worth noting that all freshman dorms are dry, which means substances are not permitted in the dorms, even if a resident happens to be over 21. Most Amherst students tend to have one or two things going on in a weekend–perhaps a friend’s birthday party–and then will move around campus following the music or the news they’ve heard about a party going on.</p>
<p>That being said, I would not in any way classify Amherst as a party school. There are some people who go out every weekend and drink heavily, but they tend to be a minority, and I’ve never experienced any pressure to drink at parties. There also are students who choose to stay in on the weekends–movies, games, etc–and they are in no way classified as the “losers who don’t party.” </p>
<p>Athletics:
I was concerned that Amherst was too much of a jock school for me as I was deciding where to attend. (A family friend toured me around campus and ended our visit in the swim team suite where a rather large party had happened the previous night; a little intimidated, I vowed never to associate with the swim team if I attended Amherst. I assumed they were all super jocks who always partied and would never deign to associate with the “nerdy” kids. In a strange twist of fate, the swimmers are among my closest friends on campus, and they have welcomed me into their group despite my not being an athlete or a big partier. I have discovered my assumptions about the “jockiness” of Amherst to be completely unfounded.) </p>
<p>The athletics program adds to the school rather than takes away from it. For a non-athlete like me, the athletics program just gives me more things to do on the weekends. It definitely doesn’t dominate campus at all. Plus, the athletes who are at Amherst are academically qualified to be there; they are not a drain on the classroom environment either.</p>
<p>A greater percentage of students at Amherst are athletes compared to Middlebury, but this is primarily a function of student body size. Both schools field the same number of NCAA teams, but Amherst is significantly smaller.</p>
<p>If the freshmen dorms are dry, do people tend to become close with the others who live nearby/on their floor? I spent the night at Haverford, and the one thing I noticed was that the floors of the dorms seemed to be the social unit. Each floor seemed to have its own party/drinking game happening. At Amherst, do freshmen tend to spend less time in their dorms if they can’t party there? </p>
<p>I did look at Haverford and Swarthmore, but I felt more ‘at home’ in the new england schools for some reason. And even at those schools, it seemed like the % of students in athletics was similar to the NESCAC ones. </p>
<p>In my experience, students definitely become close with the people on their floors freshman year. During Orientation, the Resident Counselors (RCs; upperclassmen living on each floor of freshman) do a fantastic job of organizing activities for their residents. The people I lived with freshman year are among my closest friends at Amherst two years later. While some floors are closer than others (and some say those students living in Charles Pratt don’t quite know their neighbors as well because the dorm is so big), most freshman make their first friends with the people living on their floors. </p>
<p>When I lived on the freshman quad, we tended to go out in a group if we wanted to party. A group of us would meet up in the common room on the floor before heading out. At the end of the night, everyone ended up back in the common room where we would hang out, play games, drink tea, and laugh at our drunk neighbors returning home until 2 or 3 in the morning. I spent more time in my dorm freshman year than I have my other years here. Freshman year, that’s where my friends were. If I wanted to meet up with someone, I only needed to go down the hall or up one floor or over two buildings to see them. The freshman quad is definitely the center of social life for most, if not all, freshmen. </p>
<p>It’s important to note that while the freshman dorms are “dry,” students do still bring alcohol into the dorms. When that happens, it tends to be kind of clandestine: a small party in your room with the door closed rather than a game of beer pong in the common room. (The exception would be the substance free freshman dorms where all residents commit to not being under the influence while in the dorms or have any substances in their rooms. Alcohol is never brought into those dorms.)</p>
<p>As for your question, chicknbrothel, having not visited Middlebury, I can’t really say. It’s a difficult question for anyone to answer because I really think you need more than an overnight or weekend visit to asses the culture at the two schools. So much could be dependent on what happened to be going on that particular night or who your host was.</p>
<p>My two closest friends, while I was at Middlebury were polar opposites in terms of drinking. One was a heavy drinker who never passed up a chance to attend a party (he later graduated at the top of his class at a top ten law school) the other, I’ve never seen take a drink the entire time I’ve known him (he is now a coach at a top school). My point is that the three of us hung out a lot and we’re still friends. It was never an issue. Honestly, I think a lot of high school students want to assign people to specific groups (high school has a tendency to do that). One of the great things about Middlebury (and I presume Amherst too) is that you will mix with a lot of interesting and unique people. Don’t worry so much. These schools are all pretty accepting (unless you don’t have the grades and test scores).</p>
<p>Do the ‘underground’ frats at Amherst have a big influence on the social life? I haven’t heard much about them, but it seems like Amherst is one of the only schools to still have off campus frats after the school abolished the greek system. Do sports teams take the place of frats (in terms of throwing parties/being cliquey)?</p>
<p>I would say fraternities have a small influence, but that depends on who you ask. For the people who are involved with the frats, it’s obviously a pretty big part of their experience. For the rest of us (the vast, vast majority of campus), it’s not such a big deal. We may go to a few of their parties throughout the year and probably know people in the frats (since Amherst is such a small school), but other than noticing when the pledges hold open the dining hall doors as part of their “hazing,” they’re not on the radar too much.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say the sports teams are as exclusive as fraternities might be. The suites on the Social Quad are often taken by teams (men’s hockey in one suite, football in another, etc), and as those are generally the easiest/best party venues, that’s where the parties tend to occur. By no means are all parties on campus thrown by sports teams, and they are usually not “closed” parties either. (The exception would be formals, end of season banquets, etc which tend to be restricted to the group and their dates.) </p>
<p>As a non-athlete, I’ve always felt welcome and comfortable with the sports teams at parties, in study groups, and just hanging out. Of course the teams are “cliquey”–they have to spend a lot of time together–but I don’t think the cliques are to the exclusion of the rest of the student body.</p>
Although, we only have enough time for the tour for Amherst, and we’re only going to Williams’ tour and info session. But I’ll let you know regardless.</p>