Dear Altruists,
International here. I am really in a tough dilemma. I’ve got full rides to Amherst College and UBC in Canada. I am torn between these 2. I really like both of them.
About me- 90% chance I will do a STEM major. Probably in computer science and any other related field. Gonna participate regularly in research activities and summer internships at outside firms throughout my ugrad years. And definitely wish to get into a great US grad school like Stanford, Harvard or UChicago. Weather doesn’t affect me. I am more curious about academics and research opportunities and maybe prestige. Now I have done some research myself and found out both’s pros and cons.
Amherst Pros- Amherst is the top-ranked LAC, low number of students, so tremendous scope of interacting with professors, getting independent research opportunities and I found out Amherst students go to top grad schools and med schools each year. Open curriculum, so a lot of scopes for exploration.
Some cons- Has STEM majors but no engineering, so will have to study a pure science subject at undergrad, then need to do masters at a grad school for engineering. And I don’t have any problem to major in any pure science subject, but I hear different things from different people. Some say Amherst doesn’t have that many facilities, equipment and board research fields. But the ones they got are sophisticated.
UBC Pros- lots of engineering majors, researches and opportunities. They have equipment, facilities and laboratories for engineering and STEM almost like MIT or Stanford, more than any ivy school. Their Stewart Blusson Research Institute is the 3rd largest quantum research institute in whole Canada.
Cons- But Not in the USA, in Canada. So getting into a top US grad school may get harder than it will be for Amherst (Idk really if US grad schools prefer local degrees over international ones, so would be glad if someone sheds the light on this thing). Also, the student body is huge (100-150 in a class) than Amherst (4-10), so much less scope of directly interacting with professors, may get very less attention from profs as an individual than at Amherst and competition is very intense, wherein Amherst academic competition is very ease. Some people say at UBC first-year engineering structure is poorly designed, less scopes of exploration and I may not end up getting my passion major for the competition.
Both have amazing alums. Amherst has SURF for summer research and UBC has semester-based Co-op program for doing internships or research. So which one would u have chosen if u were at my place (considering the STEM opportunities, academics and future opportunities, social side and YES obviously the probability of getting into top US grad schools)
PS- Amherst really beats UBC’s prestige and the acceptance rate. But I got the ILOT, UBC’s most prestigious leadership scholarship which is also intensely hard to achieve. Only 40-45 out of thousands a year receive this scholarship.
This is not as simple as it sounds. There’s typically a pretty significant backfilling of engineering coursework that you would have gotten in an engineering undergrad that you’ll have to take. If you’re certain that you want to be an engineer, you should take that into consideration.
Straight Physics is an option too.
They are COMPLETELY different schools. Maybe @xraymancs can shed some light.
Canadian unis are considered part of the North American system by American grad schools so no problems there, but to me, Amherst is the slam dunk choice, especially for CS or something nonengineering.
This might depend upon whether you want to do computer science, or some form of engineering, or something else.
If you want to study engineering, then I think that you want to have an undergraduate major in engineering. That would be a big plus for UBC. As one example, physics is not the same thing as mechanical engineering (I took courses in both when I was an undergrad).
If you want to be a math major (I was), then either is very good. If you want to major in CS, then check what Amherst has in CS – I do not happen to know. However, I am pretty sure that Amherst College students can take classes at U.Mass Amherst, which is very good for CS.
In terms of graduate school, either one is very well known and well respected by top graduate schools in the US. I do know people who did their undergrad in Canada and then did graduate school in the US (including some top schools).
One difference is wrt what you do after graduation. If you graduate from a university in Canada, getting a work permit is straightforward. If you find a job and if your employer is willing to sponsor you then there is a path to permanent residence. In the US immigration is a much more uncertain issue, which might change depending upon politics (which I cannot predict four years into the future). It is normally assumed by the US government that international university students will return home after graduation. How well Amherst College is known in your country I do not know. For either school, when you are initially applying for your student visa, DO NOT say that you want to stay after graduation – a student visa is for you to come here and study. You could be turned down by either the US or Canada if you tell them that you are coming on a student visa but intend to stay after graduation.
This is certainly true, but doesn’t mean a person with a BS in Physics cannot get a graduate degree in engineering. Depending on the program, they’d just need more remedial work than someone coming in with a BS in that engineering discipline. Depending on the type of engineering, that might be little to none, or it could be a lot.
A person with a Physics background can also work in Engineering. Certainly, not just any engineering job, but the right one. Aerospace for example employs people with all sorts of degrees. I know a man who managed one of NASA’s biggest programs. He didn’t have a degree in engineering. He had PhDs in Math and Physics.
The bottom line is that these experiences are going to be vastly different. Either way, the OP will be giving up something for the thing they gain.
I lean towards Amherst for the same reason I like Williams, Kenyon, Swarthmore, etc…the attention that students get from people really motivated to be there and to teach undergrads. That’s my opinion though. Certainly the OP will make it work either way.
Hi, can u tell do popular US firms recruit people from Amherst regularly?
And for UBC degree, will it be as prestigious as UBC one? (considering that Amherst rate was 2% this year, and UBC was 20%- though I got the ILOT, which is like 3%. But still Amherst is lot harder)
I think they are both good schools and can provide you an excellent degree. Much of the question is whether you like the smaller LAC or the larger R1 university atmosphere. If your goal is CS then there is only a personal preference to consider. If you want an engineering graduate degree, then UBC will probably give you a slight edge just for the reason that you will have an undergraduate degree in engineering. It is possible to move from physics to engineering but there will be some remedial courses to take and if that is not a problem then Amherst can serve as well. I must caution that if you want an engineering degree, then CS is not the best undergraduate major, you shoudl probably go for physics and take CS courses with your free electives.
Thanks a lot for the advice. If I go to UBC, I will major in Computer Engineering and electrical probably. If I go to Amherst, I’ll choose physics and CS as double majors.
And yes UBC will give me a slight edge for a focused engineering degree, but will its degree be as recognized as Amherst’s by top US grad schools? This is the only thing bugging me. Amherst’s rate is 2% for internationals, needs very high SAT and SAT subject tests, also no 1 LAC with Williams. On the other hand. UBC- more than 25% acceptance rate (according to google it’s 52%, but this year it was actually 20%), no SAT or SAT 2 needed, and the ILOT Scholarship is really hard to get, but I don’t know if US universities know about ILOT’s competition.
So when I put 2 students, 1 from Amherst and 1 from UBC side by side, which one US grad schools will value much?
UBC is not a problem for graduate schools in the US. It is a major university and getting into a graduate program is more about what you do in your undergraduate program than where you go. Wherever you go, make sure to work with your academic advisors to do the things outside your curriculum (internships, research experiences on campus, etc.) that will best prepare you for a graduate program and ensure that you get excellent letters of recommendation from people who know you and your abilities.
If you are at Amherst, as an international student, you will not be able to take advantage of the summer research programs that are limited to US Citizens. That means you will have to see if you can get a summer internship through the university and do any of your research on campus. I am not certain what limitations you will have in Canada but UBC is a much bigger research university and there should be lots of opportunities on campus.
US grad schools give an edge to US college graduates and Amherst (due to its status) will serve you better if that’s your goal.
(Wrt ILOT I’m pretty specialized and I didn’t know about its status. So you would put it on your resume with a small explanation and it’d work, bur in the US at least it wouldn’t elicit the reaction that, say, STAMPS or Morehead-Cain would.)
Another point is that you can always attend grad school at UBC. Amherst is undergraduate-only, so, no second chance.
Finally, unlike at UBC, a free ride there really covers everything. You dont have extra expenses and you dont have to rely on a big, expensive city for entertainment, and, if you find an internship in Boston or NYC, for instance, Amherst will help pay your rent in the city where it’s located (UBC wouldnt).
So the big issue is how important Engineering is to you.
I think that you should ignore admissions rates. The rates are typically much lower at top US schools because of the relatively hard to predict admissions. This causes top students in the US to apply to a very long list of schools. In Canada it is common for top students to apply to very few schools. Because admissions is more predictable in Canada, a top high school student from for example British Columbia might apply to only one or two universities.
The advantage to me of attending a smaller school is that your classes will be smaller, and you will get to know your professors. This for example makes it easier to get letters of reference to apply to graduate programs. Getting to know your professors can also help you get internship opportunities, which will also help with graduate school admissions.
One daughter is about to graduate from a small university. This was certainly her experience. A small school was a really good fit for her.
Exactly. Your acceptances to graduate programs will depend upon what you have done. Grades will matter. References will matter. Internships or research experience will matter.
That is my opinion also. If you do not want to major in engineering, I would probably go with the very good small school. If you do want to major in engineering, I would go with the very good university that has a very good engineering program.
Amherst College has about 1,830 undergraduate students; UBC has about 40,000 undergraduate students.
UBC may have the most beautiful location of any college or university in North America in one of the most livable cities in the world.
Fairly easy to get a work visa in Canada for graduates of Canadian universities, but the same is not true regarding foreign students who study in the US and want to remain in the US after college.
US graduate schools will not care if one has a degree from Amherst or from UBC.
You seem all over the place.
Is grad school your goal or working right after undergrad?
And do you want to work in the US or Canada?
For grad school, folks here have given good advice. You probably can work in Canada after UBC. For working in the US, you likely would have to go to grad school first.
