<p>"One and a half blocks of Spring St. small shops, is all there is within walking distance."</p>
<p>There's also Water St., where the bookstore, other shops, and several restaurants (Hot Tomatoes, Water St. Grill, Hobson's Choice, and the wonderful Mezze -- where students love their parents to take them when they visit) are located.</p>
<p>Agree with Klee that Amherst and Williams share much in common, including their long-time rivalry and corresponding mutual respect. I am an Amherst alum. Over the years, whenever I have met Williams grads, there seems to be a certain instantaneous understanding and acknowledgement of each others' college experience and how an excellent liberal arts education can have a meaningful impact on one's life. It sort of feels like meeting a long-lost cousin and you find out you have common relatives. I also agree that Amherst and Williams offer educations that are comparable to those offered at the Ivies. Perhaps given the small size of classes, the seminar formats, and close interactions with profs, it could be argued that they may even be superior, at least for some students. My brother graduated from Harvard College, and told me that at his reunion several years ago, President Summers (while he was still President) spoke to almuni and made it a point that he wanted to create "the classroom atmosphere of Amherst and Williams" at Harvard, and that excellence in undergraduate teaching would be recognized in tenure decisions. Don't know if that policy has been implemented. Klee and Carina, a number of years ago, I chose Amherst over Yale and have never had any regrets. Both are wonderful schools but in different ways.</p>
<p>There is a common perception that Williams is in some way more "remote" or "isolated" than Amherst. In fact, both schools are situated in equally urbanized locations (Code 31; Town: Fringe), according to the detailed and authoritative US Census Bureau geographic classification posted [url=<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=329320%5Delsewhere%5B/url">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=329320]elsewhere[/url</a>] at College Confidential. </p>
<p>So there.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My brother graduated from Harvard College, and told me that at his reunion several years ago, President Summers (while he was still President) spoke to almuni and made it a point that he wanted to create "the classroom atmosphere of Amherst and Williams" at Harvard, and that excellence in undergraduate teaching would be recognized in tenure decisions.
[/quote]
Apparently true. See, for example, the closing sentences of the Harvard</a> Curricular Review from November 2005, which was prepared during the Summers administration:
[quote]
Why should all of the creative and liberating ideas for liberal education be left to the small residential liberal arts colleges?” Peter Gomes has asked, adding: “With Harvard’s resources and opportunities we could be both Harvard University and Williams College.” We share this view and offer this document as the basis for constructive discussion, creative elaboration, and engaged debate among our colleagues.
[/quote]
</p>
<hr>
<p>
[quote]
Don't know if that policy has been implemented.
[/quote]
Here's a hint: look what happened to Summers.</p>
<p>Isolation is very much a relative term. Sorry, but a town with a 2.5 hr driving distance to Cambridge and 3 hrs to Manhattan is simply not isolated.</p>
<p>There is clearly an "urban bias" on college confidential.</p>
<p>Summer's unfortunate and very un-PC gaffe notwithstanding, he apparently was very well-liked by both alumni and students at Harvard. It seems the faculty had the most difficulty with him, and his remarks lit the fuse that blew the keg.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Summer's unfortunate and very un-PC gaffe notwithstanding, he apparently was very well-liked by both alumni and students at Harvard. It seems the faculty had the most difficulty with him, and his remarks lit the fuse that blew the keg.
[/quote]
Apparently true. More specifically, it was the Faculty of Arts and Sciences that had the most difficulty with Summers (the professional schools were reportedly behind him). But obviously any shake-ups to the undergraduate program at Harvard would require support from the FAS. The 2005 Curricular Review also says:
[quote]
The Committee recognizes that a program of general education that offers such a high degree of student choice carries with it the enduring responsibility of the Faculty to create and maintain those courses—departmental and extra-departmental courses—that are best suited for general education. The responsibility to improve and deepen teaching in science and international studies, for example, will—to repeat the words of the Report on the Harvard College Curricular Review of April 2004—depend less on the number of student requirements than on the number and quality of commitments made by the Faculty to the teaching of these and other dimensions of general education at the highest level and with the greatest rigor. This challenge is nothing less than a test of the Faculty’s commitment to the principles of a liberal education.
[/quote]
Summers essentially challenged the FAS to make a commitment to improved undergraduate education. The FAS essentially rejected that challenge (and Summers as well).</p>
<p>So it appears that "the small residential liberal arts colleges" will be retaining their monopoly on "the creative and liberating ideas for liberal education."</p>
<p>One thing that distinguishes many Williams AND Amherst students for me is that they are independent thinkers and are not blinded by purported prestige. It can be a little painful to watch as people politely congratulate them on their liberal arts college acceptances and then light up with enthusiasm over their peers who have chosen more well-known schools. I admire the former group immensely and I believe that most of them will get far more out of their undergraduate experiences than some of those who chose the brand names.</p>
<p>Williams or Amherst for a great education? You can't go wrong either way (unless you are looking for an undergraduate engineering or architecture degree or the like, rather than a general liberal arts education).</p>
<p>Visit. Few people seem to be neutral after a visit.</p>
<p>Grinnell or Kenyon comes to my mind when talking of isolation, but definitely not Williams.</p>
<p>I thought Williams was extremely isolated (and I loved Williams). It was also profoundly beautiful there, but certainly not for people who dig civilization.</p>
<p>"certainly not for people who dig civilization"</p>
<p>Too funny. Williamstown is extremely civilized, with significant cultural resources both on campus and nearby in the neigboring city of North Adams.</p>
<p>...an obvious joke. Of course Wlliamstown "civilized".</p>
<p>Amherst has very nice restaurants- Wings, La Piazza. The wings are the best commodity to touch the human tongue.</p>
<p>Amherst does have really bad food. But Williams isn’t much better. I visited both schools and stayed at Williams for a week this year for our swimming NESCACs. It’s really debatable. </p>
<p>Academics is pretty much the same too. The math and science departments at Amherst are pretty bad. All the upper level classes are full of international students who don’t do anything else and already know everything so the teachers don’t really teach. However, the Law and jurisdiction and political science major are much better, considering Amherst has Arches and Sarat- the latter is the highest paid professor in the New England area.</p>
<p>The dorms at Amherst are much better. Period.</p>
<p>Underage drinking is allowed at Amherst. On the other hand, I heard the freshmen dorms at Williams were built at a slant just so cops can have cover when they wanna take down freshmen during parties.</p>
<p>The girls are better looking at Amherst- if not at Amherst, definitely the ones at Umass, Mount Holyoke, and Smith, and they party at Amherst all the time. Sorry ladies, I’m a guy and this is important.</p>
<p>Amherst is urban; Williams is rural. Your pick really.</p>
<p>Amherst has about 1600 people. Williams has about 2000.</p>
<p>Amherst is more diverse, especially with the international students. I don’t have a problem with this, but I feel like they overdid this a bit.</p>
<p>Amherst has one of the best, if not the best, acapella group in the nation. They’re actually really cool.</p>
<p>I don’t go to Williams, and so am biased. But so is everyone else here, because no one has gone to both schools. It’s really up to the individual.</p>
<p>“Underage drinking is allowed at Amherst. On the other hand, I heard the freshmen dorms at Williams were built at a slant just so cops can have cover when they wanna take down freshmen during parties.”</p>
<p>Eh, I’ve never heard/experienced this to be true. The dorm you’re probably referring to, Mission, was upperclassmen housing until four years ago. The guy who designed it mainly designed prisons, so it has a unique shape and structure (go figure haha). The Williamstown police don’t really patrol campus, and Security responds to noise complaints/large amounts of underage drinking on the weekends. In any given weekend, though, no one is busting up small - medium gatherings.</p>
<p>“Amherst does have really bad food. But Williams isn’t much better. I visited both schools and stayed at Williams for a week this year for our swimming NESCACs. It’s really debatable.”</p>
<p>Athletes from other schools tend to eat in Greylock, which is not the best dining hall on campus. That would be Driscoll, hands down: people trek to Drisc from far corners of the campus just to eat there.</p>
<p>This thread is three years old. Let’s let it die in peace. The level of debate is sad. I think it’s pretty obvious that Williams and Amherst are comparable institutions. I think the battle for cross admits is 50% - 50%.</p>
<p>Amherst’s enticements may perhaps be more evident: the town, the consortium and the open curriculum.</p>
<p>But Williams has its own subtle enticements: the beauty of the mountains, its picture post-card town, its strength in the arts and its more tight knit student body.</p>
<p>Both are excellent institutions. A lot of this thread are folks hyper promoting their school. I think students who have been admitted to either institution can see through most of this hype.</p>
<p>That said, if people want to post here, go ahead. I don’t mean to censor or direct thread content.</p>