<p>Relative to the heated debate now & then resurrecting on this forum, you might want to read feedback on the Admissions Forum on the thread (I think) "I wish I weren't Asian." (By "AdOfficer") </p>
<p>Confirms what several on PF have been saying.</p>
<p>Thanks for flagging that great post. Here's a link to it. It's # 137.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3352772#post3352772%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=3352772#post3352772</a></p>
<p>Thanks for the post. It does not seem to have changed any mind--and I did not expect it to do so.</p>
<p>Yeah, I noticed that, too. (In the "What I choose to believe" department)</p>
<p>(Draw your conclusions, then make the "facts" fit to support your hypothesis.)</p>
<p>Definition of "chutzpah":</p>
<p>
[quote]
We in the admissions office know what we're doing - trust us to make the right decisions!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know why admissions officers would ever post on this bb. They could explain what they do and why until they are blue in their faces and people will respond as complete @@@es.</p>
<p>If you are directing your response at my post, please clarify: anyone who questions the decision-making of an admission officer, or suggests they may be affected by their own biases, is an ass?</p>
<p>"If you are directing your response at my post, please clarify: anyone who questions the decision-making of an admission officer, or suggests they may be affected by their own biases, is an ass?"</p>
<p>That's not what you did, was it? Instead you made an insult.</p>
<p>I love how people on this board think they know more about the admission process than people who do this for a living and actually make real decisions.</p>
<p>I, for one, appreciate the input and the link. It is clear that there are a lot of factors that go into a decision, and only the people examining the entire application and portfolio have the benefit of seeing the whole picture. Is it possible for a submitted application to fall short of capturing the essence of a student? Of course.
I also agree that I would not WANT my kid to attend a university consisting only of kids having the highest SATs and GPAs in the country. Of course, he wouldn't have gotten into that university anyway.</p>
<p>Fine. I will rephrase my comment to accomodate your delicate sensibilities. I find it surprising that an admissions officer will assert that one should "trust us to make the right decisions" without acknowledging the inherent possibility that their own biases will affect their choices. A little humility is in order.</p>
<p>That's better.</p>
<p>I'd like admissions officers to participate in this bb, and insulting them isn't the way to make that happen.</p>
<p>Whether you agree with the way they do things or not, they are the ones making the decisions. I would like to read their posts. </p>
<p>That post that was linked was a great post.</p>
<p>Here is another thread started by an adcom. A 55% increase in ea apps at Fordham in just 1 year. </p>
<p>Thought I'd just repost the whole thing and add emphasis to certain items that many of us have said inumerable times. *****</p>
<p>Some things to think about... </p>
<hr>
<p>Below is a posting I added to another thread in which an African-American student posted her stats after being admitted EA to Stanford and many started complaining about affirmative action. I think it can provide many of you with some insight here...and after reading many of the posts here in this thread, I have one more thing to add: be proud of who you are and your accomplishments!!!! Don't be modest about them! We want all different kinds of students: URMs, white kids, athletes, poets, musicians, rich and poor. And trust that many of us who work in admissions do know that you are all individuals and that's how we evaluate you and all that you do/have achieved!!! We know that stereotypes do not represent individuals. PLEASE, give us a little credit guys - many of us have attended the institutions you're freaking out about getting into and have graduate degrees! </p>
<p>I've read a lot of the posts on here, and it's become clear to me that many of you really do not understand affirmative action and how it works in college admissions or why we even have it in the first place. It really is not used in the way many of you think it is and as often as many of you think it is. This being said, it saddens me, really, to read some of the accusations/assumptions in some of these postings. I say this as someone who has worked at several "most selective" institutions. </p>
<p>In admissions committee and in reading files, we don't really "lower the bar" for "hooked" students - even legacies and athletes. Every student is evaluated based on the context within which they have achieved inside AND outside the classroom. That's what affirmative action protects - the right of different social institutions to include people who have been disadvantaged in different ways or who have achieved in different ways that could benefit the institution. [/]Keep in mind that NO ONE is admitted to highly selective colleges if they can't do the work. Also keep in mind that, academically, the vast majority of students applying to highly selective institutions CAN DO THE WORK. **Indeed, your 1450/2200+ SATs and 4.0+ GPAs are not that special in a national applicant pool at highly selective schools. And even if they were, it doesn't mean you'll add anything to the life of the particular campuses you're applying to in the eyes of the institution. We in the admissions office know what we're doing - trust us to make the right decisions!</p>
<p>Also, keep in mind that not all elementary and high schools are created equal! If we all went to the same high school and received the exact same education and had the exact same access to extracurricular activities, SAT prep courses, etc..., it would be easy for me and my colleagues to admit those that "deserve" to be admitted...But we don't live in that world! Many students face prejudice, racism, and classism in their schools, a lack of a stable family life, a lack of good teachers or role models, etc..., and still share the same desire to learn as those who have not faced any of these things. Thus, we have to be as objective as possible in evaluating each student and their achievements. To do this, we have to consider the opportunities each student has - or has not - had and the obstacles they have faced in achieving what they have (or have not) achieved. To deny students access to elite institutions because they don't "measure up" in quantifiable ways like others who have been privileged is, well, unethical in my opinion and perpetuates the inequalities that exist in our culture. </p>
<p>A word about athletes...Keep in mind that the time and devotion it takes to be an athlete talented enough to compete at the collegiate level is huge - even in Division III. Why is it okay to put down a student who has this kind of talent and devotion but not one with, say, musical talent? Or artistic talent? Or a huge committment to community service? I'm not sure I understand how many of you can say with certainly (because many of you do) that college athletes are "weaker" than the average student at highly selective colleges. Perhaps they may have lower testing ON AVERAGE, or even lower GPAs, but considering they are able to achieve academically at places like the Ivies and still commit over 30 hours/week to practices, travel, and competitions is impressive. Many of you are underestimating these students - many of whom have extremely high SAT scores and grades (I've seen several recruited athletes this year with SATs over 1500/2250 and 4.0 GPAs) and other extracurricular involvements. Don't underestimate these students! Sure, there are exceptions to what I've just said, but in general, athletes need to make the grade or they aren't admitted or graduated. Same thing applies to legacies nowadays, too, although there are some institutions that will bend over backwards for these kids. </p>
<p>A final point - there are hundreds of good colleges and universities out there! Those of you who are bitter because you aren't admitted to Stanford or Harvard or Amherst or Brown or Hopkins but who view yourselves as "competitive" for admission to these schools should know that you can still probably get into over 95% of the 4-year colleges and universities in this country. If you truly can't find the right fit for you outside of the US News top 20, then you aren't doing your homework and are severely limiting yourself. What matters most is where you will be happiest academically, socially, activity-wise, etc..., not what sticker is on the back of your parents' car or what your peers think of the college you are attending. If you're happy there and can get all the opportunities you want, then that's all that should matter!*******</p>
<p>If someone is truly interested in the process, they should try to understand this post, and especially what has been highlighted. If they just want to whine and play the victim, well....IMO they don't deserve any more of our time.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If someone is truly interested in the process, they should try to understand this post, and especially what has been highlighted. If they just want to whine and play the victim, well....IMO they don't deserve any more of our time.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And, even more to the point. The best time to try to understand how the admissions office will evaluate your application is when you are putting together the list of schools. IMO, unless you can point to specific reasons a school would accept you, that school probably doesn't belong on the list. Even for the reach schools, you need to be able to look at the totality of the application and ask, "is there anything here that will stand out in the applicant pool at Acme U?"</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, even more to the point. The best time to try to understand how the admissions office will evaluate your application is when you are putting together the list of schools. IMO, unless you can point to specific reasons a school would accept you, that school probably doesn't belong on the list. Even for the reach schools, you need to be able to look at the totality of the application and ask, "is there anything here that will stand out in the applicant pool at Acme U?"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>true, interestedad. And as someone who formerly didn't 'get' this, I wish that high school gc's could make this clear to their students.</p>
<p>cur, that first bolded section was exactly what I wanted to bold, too!:)</p>
<p>Interesteddad,
...(although I'd say "should" accept you rather than "would" accept you), when the applicant is pondering over that answer, the private contemplation should be more internally convincing than the concept of family rejection, parental fury, etc. -- because otherwise your personal statement will not be communicated as affirmative.</p>
<p>And while the list is being drawn up (which still too often on this very CC board includes ZERO safeties for those who've applied to the Impossible schools), a student should ask himself, "What is the worst thing that will happen to me if I don't get into Famous University X?" Are you imagining that it's unemployment? Rejection from Famous Graduate or Professional Schools? In other words, are you seeing your application as an act of desperation or an act of contribution?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also, keep in mind that not all elementary and high schools are created equal!...But we don't live in that world! Many students face prejudice, racism, and classism in their schools, a lack of a stable family life, a lack of good teachers or role models, etc..., and still share the same desire to learn as those who have not faced any of these things.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Oh. This must explain why so many kids from our rural schools (which in many cases are even more poorly funded and operated than our urban schools) get into Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>actually, in recent cycles, HYP have been particularly interested in admitting rural students (and have done so). However, there may not be a great number of them applying.</p>
<p>Ah, rats. This section was supposed to be bolded also. Sorry. epiphany, I could have just bolded all of it because it was all good but I liked that section, too. ;) </p>
<p>*Every student is evaluated based on the context within which they have achieved inside AND outside the classroom. That's what affirmative action protects - the right of different social institutions to include people who have been disadvantaged in different ways or who have achieved in different ways that could benefit the institution. *</p>
<p>
[quote]
And while the list is being drawn up (which still too often on this very CC board includes ZERO safeties for those who've applied to the Impossible schools),
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What I find more disturbing about many CC college lists is the lack of great schools between the lone "safety" and the "impossible dream" schools. So many college lists seem "digital" in nature (on or off) rather than analog (taking advantage of the fine gradations in selectivity between safeties and reaches).</p>
<p>The shame of those lists is that it is precisely that middle ground than ensures a positive, relatively stress-free, outcome.</p>