An appeal after an appeal...?

Paying for College
1

<p>My daughter attended a "CC Top Liberal Arts College" for last year. She received a generous, need-based grant. Before she accepted this college's offer, we talked to a Financial Aid officer and reviewed two impending changes to our family finances that we knew were coming: (a) an increase in my husband's salary from $15K to $30K, because a strike at his company was settled; and (b) an increase of $50K to the value of our home because of a housing boom in our area.</p>

<p>The FinAid officer told us that my daughter's grant normally would increase to match next year's increasing costs. However, due to our new-found wealth, we should expect a cut in her grant plus an increase in costs. We consequently planned on needing to come up with an extra $4,000 for next year. </p>

<p>We were surprised to find out that the grant portion of my daughter's aid was cut by $10,000. We formally appealed it and the college increased her grant but we still are about $6000 away from what we were told to expect. It may not seem like a lot of money but we stretched to come up with the EFC last year and stretched even more to come up with what we thought we needed. </p>

<p>In our appeal, we pointed out that (a) the only practical value of our increased home value was to raise our taxes; and (b) even with an extra $15,000 in salary, my husband's salary is still modest and would not suggest that we have an extra $10K lying around the house. Moreover, we raised our concerns BEFORE my daughter accepted at this college precisely because we did not want her to be in the situation she now is in: namely, applying in July for colleges and scholarships for next year. </p>

<p>Two questions: 1. Our appeal was sent to a Financial Aid officer but not to the Director of Financial Aid. Is there any further appeal that we could/should make? If so, to whom and what more can we argue? 2. Our home value will continue to rise. Does the response of the college this year suggest a repeat scenario for coming years.</p>

<p>Incidentally, this college is known for its generous financial aid and for NOT cutting aid significantly. Given the college's reputation -- and that we raised these issues last spring -- we were not prepared for the college's response and continue to be disappointed at their handling of our situation.</p>

2

<p>Did you get a commitment IN WRITING that the financial aid package would not change? Need based financial aid is determined annually based on the information from the previous year. I would be surprised if the finaid folks gave you an iron clad statement that your aid would not change with an increase in income. What you are describing is not unusual and sadly happens with more frequency than folks would hope. You mention your husband's $30K salary, and your home equity increase. What we all do not know...and what also contributes to your finaid package is whether you have a salary, what the total equity of your home is, and any other assets you or your student may have. If your total income is $30,000 and you have no other significant assets, you might be on better footing than if you have additional family income and assets. I guess you could try to appeal the appeal. You will have to have very very specific reasons why your aid should be increased, and you will need to document your expenses to show why you cannot meet an additional cost with an additional amount of income. Perhaps there will be some unused institutional funds they can send your way...you may as well try.</p>

3

<p>Thumper1, thank you for responding.</p>

<p>We did not get a commitment in writing for future years -- nor did we expect to. However, we did expect a "good faith" relationship. We knew about these specific changes for 2005 and we spoke with a financial aid officer to learn what effect they would have on future years' grants. While my salary and other assets, of course, affect the total package, they did not change. The Financial Aid officer to whom we spoke was aware of all other income and assets. The only changes between 2004 and 2005 were a 5% increase in college costs, an increase in our home equity and the increase in my husband's salary, due to the cessation of a strike at his company. There were NO other changes. </p>

<p>Again, this information was provided to the college financial aid folks in April 2004, before my daughter accepted their offer and turned down other schools. </p>

<p>This particular college is not associated with the "bait and switch" stories that we hear about -- in fact, the opposite. We called precisely because we wanted to know the effect of these changes. We dealt "straight" with the financial aid folks -- and we expected the same. We accepted the reassurances of one of their Associate Directors (who has since moved to a different college -- otherwise, I'd be talking to HER!).</p>

4

<p>I realize the only changes are one parent salary and the increase in home equity. I only inquired about the other parent salary because that could make a big difference in the overall picture. The only ones who can really make a determination about your overall financial need are the folks at your child's college. There is no harm in talking to them and putting your requests with documentation of your need, in writing. And unless I'm reading something wrong, this discussion you had was with the finaid folks two years ago (prior to your daughter's freshman year beginning in Sept. 2004). Honestly, there would be no way for the finaid folks to be able to guarantee need based aid for two years down the road. But you can try...</p>

5

<p>Speak with the head of the financial aid department, boxmaker. You never know. At least you can learn about the parent plus loans. If your child is not considered an independent student, then your assets are going to come into consideration whether they increase or decrease. Ultimately, though, if your child is going to a school which accepts federal financing for the students education and all of that, then the financial aid folks have to follow the EFC formulas. There are calculators for that online. Could you guys maybe obtain parents plus loans? Or if you are worried about finances, you could have your child apply for a student loan with one of you folks as a co signer and you could try to apply for a student loan with a co signer release option, so you will not have to worry.</p>

6

<p>Since you have a substantial increase in home equity, look into a home equity loan or line of credit.</p>

7

<p>Thank you all for your responses and suggestions.</p>

<p>My husband and I are close enough to retirement that we have decided against taking on new substantial debt. My daughter would be assuming approx $40,000 in debt -- and this is before graduate school. </p>

<p>We felt that we acted in good faith by telling the Finaid folks in advance about two specific changes to our income and assets. We asked very specific questions about the impact of these changes and my daughter made her decison, based on what we were told by a Financial Officer -- not some assistant who was "guessing" at how the college would view these changes.</p>

<p>My daugher has been place in a terrible position. Here is is mid-July and she need to apply to colleges for admission and scholarships for September. She can't even get into the state university because there are NO openings for fall semester. </p>

<p>We are not looking for ways to borrow money. We are looking for ways to further appeal our case. While I appreciate everyone's good intentions with regard to the former, we are looking for practical advice with respect to the latter.</p>

8

<p>Did you incur additional debt during the strike? If so, make sure you point that out to FA. It could help reduce the impact of the additional salary.</p>

9

<p>There is no free lunch. When your home equity increases, so will your EFC at many colleges. You took the gamble, albeit it seems with the unfortunate help of a not very informed financial aid officer. If you are close to retirement and in a booming housing market without college savings, choose a college that doesn't use profile folks!</p>

<p>It's hard to believe you'll win this one. You have the money in the eyes of the college.</p>

10

<p>Boxmaker: have you spoken with the head of the fin aid department? There is the head of the finaid department, then above that, there is the offices of the University which govern the finaid department. Then above that, there is the dean of the school of your child's major, then above that, there is the president of the University.
I feel that someone told you something without providing verifiable backup.That is why I e mail everyone in situations like this. And the sad thing is , that if the person(s) who told you some of this stuff are asked about it, they are first and foremost going to think of their job security first before they claim to have told you folks anything. That is just a sad fact of life.
Can your daughter do a little time at Community College?
That is just an idea. I honestly do not understand how the finaid offices could have promised you anything in good faith because at the end of the day, they go by the efc formulas. I do not understand how one can appeal ones efc on the basis of what they were told in good faith. Because, schools promise a lot, in theory, to get the students to apply.
For example, I cannot write my local, loyal grocer a bad check and state to him that in good faith I shall one day have the funds to cover it. When I go to jail for writing a bad check to my grocer, the judge is not going to give a darn about any good faith agreement because writing the bad check supersedes the good faith agreement. Therefore, you folks state that you have worked out a good faith agreement, but you change in economic status supersedes that good faith agreement because at the end of the day your finances is what the school looks at.
I reckon that you should keep on keeping on with all of this. If you go on your child's university web site, you will be able to figure out the chain of command. And, I say you work that chain of command until there aren't any links left.
But, you need to have a backup plan for your child if all of these appeals fall through. A humble minded backup plan, like maybe doing a little time at Community College, is not going to harm your child. Or even taking classes at a nationally recognised school which offers online classes is not going to harm your child. What is going to harm your child is not learning of any other options. try your best, but do not pin your child's hopes on this one issue when there are other schools out there.</p>

11

<p>bobby100, That is good, concrete advice for those currently applying to college!</p>

12

<p>
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The FinAid officer told us that my daughter's grant normally would increase to match next year's increasing costs. However, due to our new-found wealth, we should expect a cut in her grant plus an increase in costs.

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<p>Maybe I am a little lost here but what happened is exactly what the FA officer said would happen; your income doubled, you got an increase in your home equity which resulting in your EFC increasing and the amount of need based aid to your daughter decreasing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
We were surprised to find out that the grant portion of my daughter's aid was cut by $10,000. We formally appealed it and the college increased her grant but we still are about $6000 away from what we were told to expect.

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<p>I'm still confused as the disconnect here is you thought it would only be a 4000 increase but in reality it was a 10,000 increase. You appealed the award and got an additional $4000 which means your package went up by 6000. Since you were expecting a 4000 increase the net amount of the increase charged to your child is $2000.</p>

<p>While you feel you acted in good faith by informing the school of your impending changes in your financial situation, in the eyes of the college, they beleive that they were acting in good faith when they gave you a package based on your present financial situation. You appealed and they upped the package by $4000. </p>

<p>
[quote]
We are not looking for ways to borrow money. We are looking for ways to further appeal our case.

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</p>

<p>It seems as if you are in between a rock and a hard palce in deciding needs vs. wants. The college has given you a package based on your demonstrated need as they see it. It is not something they are "doing to you" or your family, as this would have been their approach to any other family in this position. </p>

<p>The school feels you have the money or the resources to make this happen. You basically are saying, I don't want to take out loans, but I want other people's parents to pay for my kid's education because I don't want to borrow (as the endowment that pays out grant money are gifts/contributions to the colelge made by other people's parents).</p>

<p>They believe that you have $50,000 available in the form of a home equity which you can borrow from. It is up to you as to weather or not this is the route you choose to take. </p>

<p>In addition, if you are not able to get a PLUS loan, then your daughter would be eligible to get an increased stafford loan of 4000. I agree with what the other parents have stated, that if the school has "given" you all they intend to give you as far as grant money is concerned. </p>

<p>I don't think your D is in a terrible position unless you choose to place her in one as ultimately it is up to you and husband to decide as to whether or not your daughter goes back in the fall. If you stand on your position that you are not borrowing any money, nor will you co-sign for her to borrow, then she has to just sit out until she can get into her local school in the spring. No matter what the outcome, it is a conscious decision that you and your family are making.</p>

13

<p>Merlinjones, thank you for the practical advice about working through the "chain of command." Sybbie, our specific numbers were plugged into the financial aid formula used by the college for the academic year in question. On appeal, my daughter's package was increased by $4k but is $6000 short of what a College Financial Aid Officer told us to plan for, using the college's own formula with specific information. We weren't expecting a "to the penny" promise but we feel that $10,000 is a pretty big swing from a number supplied by someone who had the authority to do the analysis and make the decisions.</p>

14

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<p>Maybe...but you clearly state that this information was given to you in April of 2004. That was TWO years ago. No financial aid officer is able to predict need based aid (which is very formula driven) two years in advance, without the requisite income verifications and asset verifications. HOWEVER, as I said before, the only way for you to know what the school will do for you is to go there and talk to them...in person if possible. From all I've read here, your daughter had (and it sounds like needed) a generous need based finaid package for two years. She only has two more years at this school. Consider that if she transfers, she will probably not be eligible for any aid at this late date AND may actually have to attend school in excess of four years to complete her degree (because sometimes things don't transfer well or because at her new school she may not be able to fulfill her major requirements in the remaining two years). Good luck to you.</p>

15

<p>bobby and sybbie are so right. The fin aid officer probably gave his best prediction of the future based on info you supplied, and his knowledge of the school's past performance. I don't think they tricked you in any way, they just didn't make the best prediction. Can you tell me what XYZ stock will be 2 yrs from now? I want to invest in the stock market.....
Colleges can be hard-edged. One might ask how well did student perform her first yr- that might have influenced how much college willing to grant. Was she a top student? slightly higher than ave? average? participate in many sports, student gov't, clubs, or other recognized ec's? Those things might have made her appear a more valuable student, too valuable to lose, and you could use that as part of your sales pitch in your appeal.
Also- colleges expect that parents plan for years in advance to send kids to school- the fact that parents had difficulty coming up with efc while hubby striking would be seen as poor planning. You mentioned you "stretched to come up with the efc last yr". they'd say why didn't you put money back all the years you and he were working? Plus, a striking workforce is seen with less sympathy than one unemployed from a plant closing, for example. Rightly or wrongly, a strike is seen more as a matter of choice to some degree.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, I'm a blue collar guy, but I think this was only an unfortunate miscalculation here. Would you grumble if they had said no $ change? What if he was off, but was $4000 in your favor? Would you then argue that the fin aid guy has miscalculated and demand to pay what he said to expect? Look at it this way- the fin aid officer didn't plan well how much money you'd need to set aside for her in 2 yrs.... but you and the hub didn't plan well how much you'd need to set aside for her over the course of her first 18 yrs!</p>

16

<p>It's too late now, but I suggest asking for commitments in writing. When we negotiated fin aid for my D for her freshman year last year, I received in writing their commitment to: not to include home equity in the equation and to always keep her loans in the lowest category. These were implemented to be able to match the aid from antoher Ivy. This year when we received the package I thought it increased more than I would have anticipated. I called the fin aid officer and asked if the 2005 letter was in the file. It was not so I sent it to them and in 36 hours the package was adjusted. If you resolve the situation in any way this year and receive any "promises" for the future, ask for them in writing.</p>