<p>I plan to live in a city, where starting salaries are more like $40,000. If not, I’ll manage and probably still be very happy. And since that “modest income” is a starting salary, I won’t have a spouse or children (although personally I don’t plan on having either ever, but the first is at least a possibility). My mom has a great pension that would help me and my relatives can fend for themselves (I’ve never been the caring type). I think it’s all about planning what you want. If you want two cars and a big house, of course you are going to need to make more money. But don’t discount the people who don’t need lots of stuff - just financial security, which comes at a pretty low income - as being unrealistic.</p>
<p>^ Yeah, but smart people like you need to get out and breed otherwise only dumb people will have kids and in a few hundred years the country will be overrun by idiots.</p>
<p>I choose to look on the bright side. I have faith that before the world is completely overrun by idiots, a fast-spreading and deadly disease will wipe out almost everyone, with the smart people having a slight edge by virtue of washing their hands more often. Then the human race can sort of start over from scratch, and maybe get it right this time.</p>
<p>Hey guys, I’m absolutely almost set on going to SJC though it is very expensive and all. I’ve always loved the sciences and the humanities but my interest in the former seriously waned as I grew older as I felt a certain disconnect between it ad myself; almost like it de-humanised me or something along that line. And I really want to get back that zest for all these subjects. </p>
<p>My question is about the alternatives to SJC. What about Thomas Aquinas College in California? It, too, offers a Great Books program… and cheap too! Would y’all recommend that college? Or any other GOOD and proven college?</p>
<p>For Stanford, we have a program called Structured Liberal Education for freshmen that covers western/eastern philosophy and thought. we’re expected to read numerous books each quarter and live in a residential community -it’s pretty similar to Yale’s program apparently.</p>
<p>I can tell you something about Thomas Aquinas College (CA). The curriculum is very similar to St. John’s, except at TAC they study Latin instead of Greek/French. Round table classes of 15-20 students. The total cost is $29,000+ (that’s tuition, fees, room, board) this year. It has been a “best value” college–rigorous program, reasonably low cost for a private school. The maximum enrollment is 350 students total–they start with about 100 in each class.</p>
<p>The campus culture is very different from St. John’s (from what I’ve heard, but I haven’t visited St. John’s). Correct me if I’m wrong, but St. John’s is known as a very “liberal”
school. TAC is one of the most conservative Catholic schools in the country.
There are students of other faiths and no faith at TAC, everyone is respected, but the culture is Catholic. The school has single sex dorms only, with no visiting. And all students must live on campus–unless they are married (very few are). They have a dress code. Strict alcohol policy. Crucifixes in the classroom. Not a party school. People are very nice. A range of students from above average to scary genius. I think the average SAT is around 1300. Campus is beautiful, but isolated.</p>
<p>Grading is very strict (c=average).<br>
I would recommend the school, but it has to fit your lifestyle.</p>
<p>We live fairly close to this school and it is tiny. It’s two or three buildings nestled in a small piece of woods with a dirt parking lot between a two busy roads and the local YMCA. I looked into the school for dual-enrollment classes when our son was in high-school. It reminded me of Boston College though I get the feeling that a degree from TM is good training to become a priest.</p>
<p>I have given the whole concept of liberal arts colleges, vs. St. John’s type of education vs. that of other types of schools. My thoughts are that although I do believe that everyone should get a strong grounding in liberal arts courses, especially in courses that involve a lot of writing and reading, I don’t think that this type of education should be the end result akin to what St. Johns is doing. </p>
<p>We are in an every increasing technological world. Folks need skills and a strong background in some specialization if they want the better jobs and want to compete.My personal belief, and admittedly this is my opinion, is that students are best served taking some specialized major and taking enough other general education courses in order to hone strong writing and reading skills.</p>
<p>l am always using my writing and reading skills, as do many other folks. I have never had to resort to any science background for either my job or for any part of my personal life. The math that I had in high school was more than enough for anything that I have needed in life. Frankly, I don’t see the big deal of taking any math and science in college unless you have a math oriented major. Statistics was the only math in college that I found at all useful.</p>
<p>Another interesting “Great Books” style school is Wyoming Catholic. It is only in its third year and has about 100 students now. The curriculum is similar to TAC’s, but they also have an outdoor leadership program and an equestrian program. I’ve never visited this school and don’t know any students there, but the “outdoorsy” emphasis and scenic wilderness location interest me. Sounds like a very unique place. And the cost is only around $22,000 for everything this year.</p>
<p>Thomas Aquinas and Thomas More are both Great Books colleges. True - they are Religious colleges (Catholic) and the culture is a decidedly religious culture.
BCEagle - you are right Thomas More is a great school for a future priest.
St John’s is not a religious college and the culture there is very different than the two mentioned above.<br>
However, all three are heavy into the Socratic method of learning. Something you won’t necessarily find at Columbia, BC or other mainstream colleges that offer “great books” programs. It’s not just about reading the books but the discussion and group learning is a huge part of the education and how it’s delivered.</p>
<p>Taxguy - are you saying there is no room in higher education for Great Books learning?</p>
<p>Here’s the thing - a student can come out of St John’s with a BS and move on to many grad school programs. They may have to take a few courses that are pre-requisites but you don’t need to have a BS in Business to get an MBA.
As far as technology goes, most kids have been brought up with it. A St John’s graduate who wants to pursue a technology based occupation can do it. </p>
<p>I can take issue with your comment about the lack of a need for math and science learning in college but that will probably have to go on another thread.</p>
<p>There are (at least) 2 Thomas Aquinas Colleges–There is a “SAINT Thomas Aquinas College”–in Sparkhill, NY. Catholic liberal arts, not a great books school.</p>
<p>“Thomas Aquinas College” is the Great Books school in Santa Paula, CA (Many people mistakenly add “St.” to the name when referring to this school. Thomas Aquinas College usually has (CA) after the name so people know which one it is.</p>
<p>“Thomas More College of Liberal Arts” is in Merrimack," NH–tiny, conservative Great Books school.</p>
<p>“Thomas More College,” another small Catholic liberal arts college, is in Crestview Hills, KY (Cincinnati area). Not a Great Books school.</p>
<p>“The College of St. Thomas More” --super tiny conservative Great Books school in Fort Worth, TX</p>
<p>Also, a St. Thomas More college in South Africa.</p>
<p>(I won’t even start on the plain old “St. Thomas” colleges/universities.)</p>
<p>Funny, after I posted I realized I should have qualifed the “Thomases”!</p>
<p>I was referring to the Thomas Aquinas College in CA - Great books school and “Thomas More College of Liberal Arts” in Merrimack, NH; the one which BCEagle referred to in his post.</p>
<p>justamomof4 asks in post 95,"are you saying there is no room in higher education for Great Books learning?</p>
<p>Response: No where in my post number 90 did I say or imply that there is no room for Great Books learning. In fact, I feel that colleges should greatly emphasize reading and writing skills,which would be met by using some of the Great Books. I just don’t agree that a four year curriculum should be entirely based on them! Essentially, they ignore a lot of 20th century developments, although admittedly, much of what they teach, is timeless. </p>
<p>To me, if you are going to require math then teach math as we understand it today and not as Euclid understood it. I don’t see why folks need to know Ancient Greek, although I do understand that some “minor” nuances in philosophy might be missed when you use a translation. </p>
<p>My attitude is that many folks would be better served with some form of a “vocational” type of major while at the same time getting a strong liberal arts background in reading and writing. In fact, I don’t think that many colleges emphasize critical reading and writing skills enough! I would require at least one course per semester throughout the college years that would focus on these skills.</p>
<p>I will say, however, that a St. Johns form of education would, in my opinion, be preferable over specializing in some majors such as Business Admininistration or Woman’s Studies,and I am not knocking these majors. Moreover, I think that studying the Great Books would be great if you wanted to either go to law school afterwards or go to graduate school in Philosophy. Again, all this is simply my opinion from an " old coot’s perspective."</p>