An honest look at how Intel Finalists get there

<p>The article was a bit of an implicit criticism of Ward Melville.</p>

<p>Know any program in PA, NJ. thx.</p>

<p>Try this site:
<a href="http://www.sciserv.org/stp/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sciserv.org/stp/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Also Google - " Research Programs For High School Students in New Jersey" (and...you should then know what to do to search for PA!)</p>

<p>since 8th grade i had been doing my projects at home with no mentors or anything...they were engineering/comp sci</p>

<p>i won my regional sci fair, tons of awards, and did well at a couple other sci competitions...made it to ISEF in my sophomore year on my own original work</p>

<p>from my soph-junior summer i did research at a lab. my main reason was that doing my own research at home took WAAAY too much time out of schoolwork and other activities. so the good thing was that i was able to free up a LOT of my time. i'm entering my project in several competitions this year. Though the project was pretty much all my own work it doesn't feel like MINE like the projects i did at home. i definately understand all the aspects of my project though. i am trying to continue my summer research to some extent, independently at home. the cool thing about working in labs is that you get exposed to several fields you don't usually get exposed to. i'm probably gonna work in labs from now on since i have interests in atomic/quantum/particle physics and can't really do that at home lol</p>

<p>Seriously, I am sure that in any lab there are several, actually no, MANY people working on certain research. However, only one person gets first position on the paper because he was doing most part of it/leading it/structuring it.
Professors get their share because they do publish some of the students' work, but no one cares about it being not fair to students, right?
Also, don't forget crapload of different references which are used extensively in project and usually scientist adds a little to them -- moving science by little steps. Science is, from my point of view, all about openness and collaboration.</p>

<p>Now, you can check whether student was principal investigator through interview (why do you think they have it?) and be happy and sure that student really was involved very much and deserves win.</p>

<p>To be an Intel winner, it's not just about the project. Finalists go through intensive questioning by a panel of scientists on a wide variety of scientific topics -- not just those related to one's project. There was a profile in the Washington Post last summer -- the kids who get to the top 40 know their stuff, inside and out.
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/26/AR2005072601834.html?sub=AR%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/26/AR2005072601834.html?sub=AR&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>CountingDown is absolutely right. I have two friends who were finalists last year, both from Ward Melville. They're brilliant. One's at Yale and the other is at MIT and they earned their spots, no question.</p>

<p>It is very disturbing that a discussion of cheating on Intel and Intel like competitions has some members calling everyone from India and China as cheats. This is followed by some art examples where the chinese class was asked to copy the masters and how this would not be done in a western art class. Oh, and how the western mind has to understand "them." I hope this kind of racist remarks are made out of ignorance. FYI, copying the masters is also one of the techniques used in teaching art in the west. I have taken such classes. It is one of the ways to learn good techniques before branching off to making one's own interpretation of art. I have several examples of things copied by the west from the east: </p>

<ol>
<li>Christian Yoga</li>
<li>Trying to patent turmeric, neem and other products (taking the knowlege from India). The patents were fought successfully by the Indian government. </li>
<li>An American woman in NY who went to India, learned the secrets of good skin products from the locals and try to sell them in the US without any acknowledgment. </li>
<li>Starbucks famous Oregon Chai. The world Chai is Indian. The style of making tea with spices is also Indian. In the beginning, Starbucks was passing off this "new chai" as their own invention.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>I could go on and on. Now, do I call all American cheats from these and other examples? I think the members should think twice before calling whole nations names from the examples of a few.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The world Chai is Indian.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think you mean the WORD chai is Indian. But of course it is a loanword from Chinese, as is easily apparent to anyone who speaks Mandarin or Russian. I agree with you that that style of making tea is Indian, and I think almost everyone knows that.</p>

<p>I live in "Intel" country. By that, I mean that many of the schools here have programs where you sign up for a project. You are assigned a sponsor or you can get one yourself. It is advisable to go through the list since those are researchers who are familiar with what is needed in a project, and that is what all of the kids I know have done.</p>

<p>Two of my friends have daughter who submitted a project, and both moms are wiped out with their end of the work. They told me it was worse than college apps, and worse than selective graduate work. Both highly educated women who work many hours at their jobs and not the sort that usually were involved in their kids work unless necessary. Both girls excellent students that are likely to get into top 25 selectivity schools even without the Intel. Neither mother felt that it was likely that their daughter could have done this project alone, though both girls are so well versed in it that they can give remarkable presentations. The technicalities were all orchestrated by the mentors. Both moms have other older kids in selective schools that did most of the college app stuff themselves, as these girls are doing. The intel project was a whole different story.</p>

<p>At the time of submission, Intel/STS requires numerous essays and a final paper. It isn't necessary for a parent to be involved in the project, but some students ask their parents to review the essays and paper. As some parents might do for a college application.</p>

<p>The only other "necessary" parent involvement might be transportation to the mentor/research lab (although there are top 40 finalists who have been able to work with their mentors via e-mail and phone. A little easier for math and social science than "regular" science.)</p>

<p>Some parents may certainly get more involved....but it isn't necessary.</p>

<p>Oh really! Maybe you should have looked at Starbucks and other tea manufacturers like Oregon chai when they kick started their campaigns. No where was it acknowledged that the tea was Indian. It was only after the Indian community made a fuss did they fess up. It was patented as a new product from Oregon! So, do I call all Americans cheats from these incidents just like some members call the whole of china and India as cheats based on some bad apples? Maybe we should also get to know "them" (the western mind) to figure out why big American businesses cheat. I guess it dosen't sound very pretty when the tables are reversed does it? But the "American mind" does not have any hesitation about calling whole nations cheats. WOW!</p>

<p>Anyone can make tea. And anyone can call it whatever they want. It's about how you market and position it, and even more importantly, about quality control. </p>

<p>The reason Starbucks is a global brand is because they know how to make better coffee, tea, chai, whatever, than anyone else in the world.</p>

<p>posterX</p>

<p>Not really. The chai is better in India.</p>

<p>I've read most of this post and I'm puzzled about the heat. The US desperately needs to increase its stock of well-trained scientists. How is it bad to put a little "rock star" focus on scientific study for a change? Enough focus certainly gets put on sports. And money?? Again, compared to sports this is nothing.</p>

<p>Nothing is ever accomplished in a vacuum. All or most of us are "unfairly" advantaged in some ways and "unfairly" disavantaged in others. I'm realizing that I've been whining too much on some of these threads myself.</p>

<p>If we put half the time and energy extending opportunities to the kids that need them as we do complaining about the kids with too much opportunity, maybe we could start closing the gap.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I agree with you that that style of making tea is Indian, and I think almost everyone knows that.

[/quote]
LOL!</p>

<p>Geetha, you need to chill. Go have some chai tea.</p>

<p>"Go have some chai tea."</p>

<p>chai tea is redundant. Like you can not say,"I am going to my home house".</p>

<p>But Geetha does have a point.</p>

<p>White American Parents guide their kids. Indian parents push their kids :)</p>

<p>
[quote]
chai tea is redundant. Like you can not say,"I am going to my home house".

[/quote]
Sorry, simba. I'm not tea drinker.</p>

<p>
[quote]
White American Parents guide their kids. We Indian parents push their kids

[/quote]
To whom does "their" refer? Are you saying that Indian parents push white American kids? Or you push you own kids? It's not clear to me.</p>

<p>Sure I need to chill. Of course anyone can make tea and anyone can take tea made in other countries and pass it off as their own. Of course, if Americans do it, it is not cheating but good marketing. It is the same for all things that were fought in court, taken from India, to prevent it from being patented as new products by American companies. This is also "good marketing" and not cheating. Heaven forbid that anyone can call this cheating. But, a bunch of kids from India and China who won scientific competitions within limited parameters are cheats. So are all people from India and China and something needs to be done to understand "them." You people are a piece of work.</p>

<p>Geetha123</p>

<p>Caucasian Americans aren't all alike either; we aren't even mostly Caucasian. And I've been to India twice and the chai is wonderful there. You're right; we stole it and should at least acknowledge the incredible culture we stole it from. And I think chai means tea, therefore the redundancy in chai tea. Also kiwi fruit should be called kiwi fruit and not kiwi, the word for the bird and the New Zealander. But I digress.</p>