The colleges outsourced this to the Native American tribal governments, which are well defined entities which have their own reasons and interests for defining who is a member of the tribe. There is no equivalent for other racial or ethnic groups, and the colleges do not want to get into the business of formalizing a definition of race classification, especially in edge cases (e.g. where how a person acts culturally is different from how others see the person, or where a person’s appearance is ambiguous in terms of the usual notions of race and ethnicity).
Many, many colleges don’t expect tribal enrollment. Many legit NA kids don’t have it, for various reasons. It’s going to be different in Oklahoma than Maryland. There is no one simple answer. And it’s not about stereotypes. The blond kid could have plenty of connection to the heritage.
I also wish Sally’s Dean posts were dated, so we could tell if that’s recent or years old.
Agree. They are dated but CC chooses not to display the date.
It was first published on 2005-05-07 according to a meta tag in the document. (“View Source” will show it).
@prospect1 I agree that merely ticking the box won’t make much of a difference. Having had some experience in college admissions, it is well known that people tick boxes in an effort to secure supposed “minority preference”. In truth, admissions committees get information from many sources and just being an URM doesn’t mean that you will automatically get additional consideration. We routinely called guidance counselors to discuss candidates and to find out more about a student, their circumstances etc.
I think @socalmom007 has nailed it. Her white-looking kids can legitimately check that Hispanic box because they have legitimately participated in Hispanic language and culture. It’s really that simple.
Someone who just discovered they had a percentage of African ancestry, but who has no ties to any African-American community or a shared history (and yes, the discrimination that often accompanies minority status) is being disingenuous by checking that box. Whether or not the claim is legally true is irrelevant. I would reject the application if it were in my power.
@Massmomm At most universities, lying on any aspect of your application, including a question about race, is grounds for rejection. When I worked in admissions, if we uncovered a discrepancy about race etc., that we couldn’t resolve we would simply move that application into the “decline” category. And I think many students and parents underestimate how often admissions officers contact schools to discuss an application. We did it all the time.
How would a high school guidance counselor know your child’s ethnic background? My daughter goes to a high school with almost 4,000 students, all her guidance counselor would be able to say about her is that she’s a strong student. I have listed my kids as Hispanic since they started school, not sure where that info is in their permanent records.
@sahmkc "It’s my personal opinion that if you live “white” you are “white”! " Please explain what you mean by this.
There was a student who posted on CC because they were disappointed with their admission results. Their twin was getting accepted to the same places this student was getting rejected from, and it was upsetting. The stats seemed pretty good, but the student fiddled with the race/ethnicity boxes and I wonder if doing so without consulting the twin might have affected the results.
@sahmkc Is it your opinion that if a black child is adopted by a white family and therefore “lives white”, that he or she should not be allowed to check the black box? That is nonsense in my opinion. How one lives does not affect your race.
@Zekesima - Even if you have a percentage of your ancestry that allows you to check a box, you should not check that box unless you actually participate in that cultural heritage. My kids have a high percentage of NA, but they have never identified as NA and live “white” with all of the privileges that comes with. You shouldn’t just check a box because it benefits you as this takes away from those who actually honor their cultural heritage or unfortunately have faced discrimination due to their heritage.You shouldn’t conveniently identify with a race for college applications just because it will give you an advantage.
Moderator’s Note: Please return to the original post subject, Ancestry.com’s information. Continuing in the discussion of race for college admissions can be done in the pinned thread in the College Admission forum.
@me29034 An black child who is adopted by a white family does not live white. They face discrimination because of their skin color. That’s wrong, but true. Basically what I’m saying is you can’t take some Ancestry test and then claim that heritage to “game” the system if you have spent your life identifying as a white person.
You still haven’t answered my question re: what it means to “live white”, but perhaps that discussion would be prohibited here.
@Zekesima - to identify as white. You can’t spend your life identifying as a white person and then all of a sudden become a different race/cultural heritage like Native American or Hispanic because of some Ancestry test. It’s disingenuous - especially if it’s just to get a higher chance to get into a college.
So, a biracial child who looks white and lives among mostly whites shouldn’t check the African American box? What about someone who chooses later in life to identify with a newly discovered Jewish ancestry…would that be dishonest in your opinion?
well, this thread is timely. I have dark skin and, during my high school summers teaching tennis, tanned to the point where people wondered out loud if I was black. About a year ago I found a picture of my grandfather from the 1950s and, based on the photo, most people would conclude he’s black. I knew if my D, probably the most aggressive of our kids, saw the photo she’d demand a DNA test with an eye towards potentially strengthening her app. I thought about this and concluded since she doesn’t identify as black, it would just be the wrong thing to do.
she was admitted ED in Dec so last week I finally showed her the picture. The first words out of her mouth were “I could’ve gotten into harvard!”. In the end, it led to a good discussion about why applying as a multi-racial was the wrong thing to do. She’s still after me to have the test performed and I am a little intrigued but in the end, I don’t really care. It’s not going to change our lives in any way.
This is specifically about using an ancestry test to game the system, so I think it’s dishonest to go looking for a reason to check the box.
My friend’s wife was 1/4 NA, registered with the tribe (her father lived on the reservation). Her son was 1/8 and registered. The were 100% urban white people by culture. She was very much a city girl, from music to fashion to interests. Their son went to an Episcopal high school, was raise as a white kid in the twin cities. I don’t think the son had been to the reservation more than a handful of times to visit relatives but the wife had grown up on the reservations (and ran far far away as soon as she could).
The mother and son got checks from the tribe all the time when the tribe sold fishing rights, timber, made money on casinos or banking. That was their only connection. If a college gave them an advantage for admissions or FA because of diversity and hoping to have a diverse student body, the school would have been very disappointed. They didn’t look NA, didn’t have any culture to add to the student experience, did not have a NA sounding name.
I feel it is the same with my daughter. She looks Chinese, but that’s about it. I tried keeping her heritage connections, but she’s 100% American now.
If I took a DNA test and it said I was some% German, how would that change anything about me? I wasn’t raised in a German culture, didn’t have German flags around the house, German food, German names for kids or pets or dream of traveling to Berlin. My sister majored in German, and that’s about as close a connection as I have. If my DNA came back ?% German, it would mean some German at some point traveled to Ireland or England and adopted that culture. I’m still 100% American
@socalmom007 If your child declared an ethnicity on her SAT or ACT forms, the school will see this. However, my point is that college’s do take misrepresentations seriously.