I work with one engineer who grew up around the poverty level, crummy schools, did college part time on a combo of GI Bill and tuition reimbursement from his hourly job. I work with another whose parents were diplomats and never knew anything but privilege.
One of these two is eligible for money because of his looks, and you can guess which one.
Kids from lousy backgrounds don’t all look a certain way.
@quietdesperation “She’s still after me to have the test performed and I am a little intrigued but in the end, I don’t really care. It’s not going to change our lives in any way.” Is this really true, though? If you found out you were 1/4 black and your kids 1/8, you don’t think that would change the way you think about yourself even a little bit? Well, the family in the OP might feel differently about themselves now that they know this new info about their ethnic/racial heritage. So what if they take advantage of it in the college app process? I don’t see any real difference between them taking advantage and a wealthy Nigerian family taking advantage of AA.
You do not need tribal enrollment at all schools and the federal guidelines relate to federal support, not college admissions.
But I agree it’s more than checking a box. And the idea you have to look a certain way sounds dismissive.
Not all GCs will know a student’s racial or ethnic makeup. Not all adcoms have time to go back to many counselors. But if you have no connection, you have none. This affects kids all the time. You don’t just send a transcript and a check box.
Not even a little bit. I do not care. I’m American. I think it is fun to celebrate St. Patrick’s Day, but I’d think it was fun even if I was not one drop Irish. My daughter, who is 100% Chinese but who has grown up in an Irish American family and has an Irish name, loves to celebrate it too. I’m not Chinese but think red envelopes full of money are fun on Chinese New Years. I like Mexican food but not the music too much.
Soon everyone will be checking all the boxes and the boxes will have no meaning. My daughter goes to a school that statistically is about 50% white. Lots of other boxes checked. I know her school gives no bonus points for minority status. It doesn’t have to to get a balanced student body. The goal is to make race and ethnicity not matter, and her school has achieved that goal.
@Zekesima "If you found out you were 1/4 black and your kids 1/8, you don’t think that would change the way you think about yourself even a little bit? "
no, why would it?
“I don’t see any real difference between them taking advantage and a wealthy Nigerian family taking advantage of AA.”
is it important to build a class with kids from other cultures? other ways of thinking about problems? someone that can talk represent the problems found in other parts of the world? really, no difference?
In my experience, when it comes to solving really hard problems, it’s vitally important to build teams with a diverse set of backgrounds and experience.
Well, obviously not everyone would respond with such indifference to that news. The family in the OP may have actually cared and checked the African American box with newfound black pride…who knows? It’s their business.
Very interesting thread. My kids are biracial. First child, DS, has white skin and blue eyes. Didn’t check “the box” for college, always ID’d as white. Second child, DD, is mocha with dark eyes and more of an “ethnic” look. She identifies as black, checked the box, and is at Penn. Did that get her accepted? We’ll never know. She is thriving, getting A’s and is very involved with Black Lives Matter and other relevant organizations. I think it is disingenuous to claim a minority group on an application if you do not live the associated bias and stigma.
Yes I know, but my friend and her son have those registration numbers. They would have been admitted to colleges will all the privileges of being NA, but brought none of the diversity to the school. There was nothing about them that indicated ‘NA’ and they would not contribute to the diversity of the student body because they did not live a cultural life. The son was two generations away from the reservation and knew nothing about it. I’ve been to their home a number of times and don’t remember anything indicating they were NA. They didn’t hide it, talked about it openly, but only that they were registered tribe members and that they got benefits.
I do think that even if schools do away with affirmative action admissions, the NA designation will still have benefits because of federal laws. There is such a low percentage in most schools that it will not matter.
@Zekesima Your children should check mixed race or more than two races.
@picktails “I think it is disingenuous to claim a minority group on an application if you do not live the associated bias and stigma.” So, what is the criterion that you think should be used to determine whether you’ve suffered enough to be able to check the African American box on an application? Are you telling me that you think a black person who cannot come up with any personal recollection of bias or racism against him/her should refrain from checking the AfAm box? In that case, none of my children should check the box. …But wait, one of them is likely heading down to AL for college, so maybe I’ll have to revise that.
No @Zekesima, of course not. There is systemic bias that many times is not so overt but affects opportunity. There is no doubt that there is prejudice and preconceived opinions based on appearance, which is why many institutions forcefully support AA. I don’t think any “suffering” is necessary to check the box. Rather acknowledging white privilege in NOT checking it was my point - referring to the OP, who mentioned an ancestry test but not outward appearance.
Commonly, this is done by checking more than one that apply.
^And this is what we’ve always done, though maybe they lack the victimhood credentials to do so, according to some.
Please watch pointed comments that are as much venting.
No one should assume that, when discussing top colleges, anyone gets a leap ahead simply for checking a box. If some kids discover some AA heritage based on a DNA test, they’re fooling themselves if they think adcoms will show them more love for simply checking it. Just as they’re often fooling themselves that a lot of the usual hs stuff magically raises them.
More food for thought about adopted kids. All adopted kids wonder about their identity and their genetic heritage. regardless of whether they were adopted internationally or domestically or whether they “look” like the adoptive parents or not. I figure that at some point my adopted kid is going to learn more about her genetic heritage and birth family whether it is through DNA testing or by other means. The one thing I’m sure of is that it’s not my place as the adoptive parent to tell her that she must identify as a white European because that’s what her adoptive parents are. She already looks in the mirror and sees that she looks different from the rest of the family, and it’s her right to explore her individual identity. I’m certainly opposed to manipulation of DNA testing to claim some undeserved hardship status, but I’m also cautious about sweeping statements about what other people are entitled to claim about their genetic/ethnic/racial status.
What this thread really comes down to is that it is difficult for a third party to come up with a clear definition of race or ethnicity that works in the edge cases and is applicable to the reason for asking the question.
Informally, one might say that identification with a race or ethnicity can be based on having some level of cultural attachment with such and/or being commonly identified by others as such. But both of these criteria are subjectively determined, so most of the time it comes down to honor system self identification.
I can’t help but wonder (humorously) how an admissions committee would have viewed Navin R. Johnson, aka Steve Martin, in 1979’s movie “The Jerk.”
Near the movie’s start, Steve Martin’s character explains “I was born a poor black child” as he dances to music surrounded by his musical black family on the porch of their Mississippi shack. Anyway, he identifies and lives as “black” and is economically disadvantaged but genetically is lily white. Smiles and laughs aside, Steve Martin’s character adds an interesting slant to the issues discussed in this thread. Here’s a link to the opening clip of “The Jerk:” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtmi4Nc-3dE
I guess I just accepted this when I first read it, but how does DNA show “African American” ancestry, exactly?
It can’t, it would show sub Saharan African decent.
Fascinating read: http://www.theroot.com/exactly-how-black-is-black-america-1790895185