@MaterS I find it hard to believe that your district gives teachers enough free periods that they never have to prepare lesson plans, grade papers, do report cards, contact kids or parents, or write recommendations on their own time. My teacher friends, who have prep periods in their contracts, still have to do a lot of work outside of school hours. Writing recommendations is certainly one task done outside of school hours.
@MWolf for some kids and some schools, a teacher rec that says Johnny took my class and got an A and he did well is enough. Not every kid is trying for an elite school where that sort of rec would not work. Not a waste at all.
Please name the district where teachers don’t grade, lesson plan, make phone calls or anything else on their own time. Hubby will have his resume there in 4 seconds.
@suzy100 That sounds like a smart teacher. I wonder if students could ask him what bad thing he would say about them and if he would answer. Clearly his LORs would be specific to the student, so it could be worth the risk.
@NJWrestlingmom It is inappropriate and hopefully a violation of TOS to ask me for personal information.
In a general way to answer your question my husband comes from a family of educators. His brother has worked as a vice principal, principal, assistant school superintendent and superintendent in some of the poorest, largest, and richest districts in the country in several states. There are always teachers that walk out of meetings when they are off the clock. Some give more to their profession but as a taxpayer I wouldn’t expect it in 2019.
That is an incredibly broad statement MaterS and very unfair. That teacher may walk out of a meeting because they have to pick up their kid at day care. Or because their district does not have a contract. And there are probably many more that stay.
Where is the evidence that teachers, in general, are not expected to and usually have to, spend time outside of the school day doing work.
But yes–I would love to know where my H could find a job where he’s paid for the 10 or more hours a day he’s at school, the work he puts in at night and/or early morning, and the many weekend hours.
He does write many many recommendations. He requires students to meet with him for an interview before he will write them, which does cut down somewhat on the numbers. But he takes care with each one to write something memorable and supportive. Not boilerplate.
Yes, sorry, I forget you all don’t know my sarcastic nature!
H puts in more hours than I do in the corporate world when all is said and done. He does leave meetings occasionally - because he has to pick up D21, or go to his evening tutoring jobs. He is working at home every night, every weekend and most breaks. He spent a couple of Saturdays ago at an all day DI tournament as a judge, for free, as he has for the last 8 years, because the kids ask him to do it. Another Saturday he’ll be on the band trip to Hershey, for free, because the music teacher can’t find enough adults to go with him. Not all teachers go above and beyond, but more do than ever get credit for it.
At my kid’s school during junior year, they have a meeting for students and parents and another just for students that goes through the whole college application process. It also includes a whole section on asking teachers for recommendations. It includes:
Give the teachers adequate time and let them know what date the letters need to be mailed by
Let the teachers know if anything special or extra is required
Let the teachers know where the letter is supposed to be sent
Student has to provide the teacher with any information that is relevant to the LOR (the office offers forms that students can fill out) They recommend doing a packet…
Go to teachers who know you well!
The school also has a deadline for when you can ask teachers for recommendations. If you ask after the deadline the teacher can say no. Though they can say yes if they have the time. Everyone is informed of the deadline…
The teachers know about all this too…it’s not a perfect system, but it’s nice to have everyone on the same page.
@OneMoreKid well yes, of course but maybe the teacher had good reason to say no. At my kid’s school they do have a system in place for LORs and they inform everyone…teachers, parents and students. That way everyone is on the same page and people know when to ask the teacher…and if you miss the deadline to ask the teacher…well, tough! This isn’t foolproof, but at least it keeps everyone on the same page and it’s nice to have some sort of system in place. I think they started doing this, because teachers were overwhelmed, students were waiting until the last second, kids were disappointed because teachers said no, etc…
It would be best if more schools had a system in place…to keep it consistent.
@MWolf while I realize it’s not rationing technically, it did discourage some kids who thought it was way too much trouble. My older son was in his class too and he asked the Latin teacher for a recommendation instead.
@OneMoreKid - hi. I’m a HS teacher who routinely writes more than a dozen recs every year. if your earlier post about firing teachers for seeking limits on an activity that is NOT a require part of their job requirements, but is instead something we do to help kids reach THEIR goals is an indication of your overall attitude towards teachers… wow. Just wow.
Seems like recommendations are uncompensated work foisted on high school teachers and counselors by colleges. About two thirds of colleges use recommendations.
What value do teacher and counselor recommendations really add for most applicants at most colleges? Seems like only the most exceptional applicants would be affected, while most recommendations would be generic template ones. If colleges not in the top layer of admission selectivity stopped requiring recommendations, that could reduce uncompensated work by teachers and counselors, while allowing them more time for the few recommendations they will write for exceptional students, without needing to ration.
My attitude towards teachers is of the highest regard and respect to their profession. I just find it horrifying how some teachers dishonor their profession and they tend to be the ones in work-rules “leadership” positions. The good teachers remain good in spite of it and many leave the profession specifically because of it.
My son is going to write a personal Thank You letter to every teacher he’s had. We just got lucky in getting almost all good ones and hardly any of the dead weight.
My daughter asked about her teacher recommendations late in junior year, and proactively made sure she could use them for scholarships too.
She got four nailed down - one she had for honors precalc and AP Calc, one she had for honors Spanish for several years, one she had for freshman honors Algebra 2 (had a real connection with her) and one for sophomore English. She asked them before school let out, and asked for summer contact information to keep in touch, since she started applying in August. I think she might have mixed and matched based on the application requirements.
They all came through, including reworked letters for scholarships. I saw the English teacher’s recommendation, and it was a work of art and really showed she knew her. I was a bit worried that two of the teachers were not from junior/senior year, but it didn’t seem to matter.
In the end, she gave all those teachers a handwritten thank you note with a little Panera gift card inside.
I believe this is an issue that goes straight to the director of guidance.
In my school, Juniors request letters from 3 teachers, and those requests go to guidance. Guidance does what it can to lessen the load on the heaviest hit teachers. Some years I’ve written upwards of 35 or 40 letters, and I never win the “award” for most letters, since I haven’t taught all juniors in decades. This year, with only 1 junior class, I’ll be writing 18 letters.
But, perhaps because we’re a Catholic school, we don’t get to set a limit on letters or to opt out. If we honestly don’t think we can write a good letter for a particular student we say so. In the 30+ years I’ve been teaching there was only one student who requested a letter to whom I suggested that an honest letter from me might not be in her best interests.
The reality is that all kids planning to go to college beyond the community college level will need 2 letters. And it’s up to the guidance department to ensure that it can happen for each student.
But I will add that a series of well written letters takes some serious time!! I limit myself to 2 per day; more than that and I start to find myself repeating words and phrases. And, even as a math teacher, I like to write and am decent at it. For some of the members of my department, 40 or 50 letters is an absolute torture-- and they’re due to guidance by the end of the school year. Please don’t believe that these letters are easy to write, even for the top students. They take some serious time to craft if they’re going to be done well.
Perhaps that varies by state. In California, students applying to the in-state public universities do not need any recommendations. That probably keeps the teacher recommendation load lower at many high schools, but perhaps not so much as those where lots of students apply to private universities that do want recommendations.
This was an unexpected issue at my kids’ public high school this year too. Teachers having caps on # of letters, and were neither kind nor encouraging explaining the process to their classes. My DD cried for a week because she really wanted a rec from one particular teacher who made it sound like she uses a lottery system. The stress was terrible. I think in the end she “got in” or whatever. But for those of us who have always wondered whether private high schools are “better,” and maybe we are missing out on something, this was the time I felt that the most.
@bjkmom is correct. The counseling office should manage the requests, and be sure kids are only requesting the letters they NEED.
Some of our overachieving students will ask for 3 or 4 (or more!) letters when they only need 1 or 2. I have to lovingly explain to them that asking for “extra” letters not only overly burdens teachers, but doesn’t really help the adcoms, either.