<p>Another article about personal and student debt. 27 years old, USC grad, accounting major, $150k of student debt, $25k of credit card debt, $20k of medical expenses, credit card late fees. He's looking at filing for chapter 7:</p>
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Shelbourn, who makes about $41,000 a year, said he agonized over whether to go down the bankruptcy road. In the end, he decided it would be the fastest way to get his finances in order.</p>
<p>"I'm a practical, numbers person," Shelbourn said. "I did the calculations and saw that my credit card debt alone would suck away all my income. I know I got in over my head and made some mistakes. But I really felt like the prudent thing to do would be to start over."
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<p>No idea if he'll be able to meet the requirements for being able to discharge his student loans. I'm also wondering about the wisdom of being willing to be interviewed for this story. The young man is a financial professional; does he really want to have future employers see via a quick search that he's had this much trouble with his personal financial affairs? </p>
<p>I didn't think you could discharge student loans by filing bankruptcy.</p>
<p>I will never understand why anyone thinks it is OK to incur so much student debt for undergrad. We argue this with students (and some parents) every year on CC. Some people are so determined to go to schools they just cannot afford - including OOS public schools that work out very expensive - it makes no sense to me at all.</p>
<p>I agree with Swimcatsmom- I thought you couldn't discharge student loans. It seems like the loans are the largest part of his debt- so he'll still have to pay those back. Maybe in April some kid who got accepted to a college with no financial aid and is contemplating taking on 40K of loans every year will read this story.</p>
<p>I did some googling about the student loan/bankruptcy issue and it is very difficult to discharge Student loans through bankruptcy unless there is a reason that repaying them will cause undue hardship - such as a permanent disability. For instance one of the sites I found had the following:</p>
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I've got $60,000 left in student loans, and I've been repaying them for ten years already. If I file for bankruptcy, will this debt be wiped out?</p>
<p>The rules for discharging student loans in bankruptcy have gotten tougher over the years. **Currently, student loans are dischargeable only if you can prove to the court that repaying them would cause you undue hardship, which is a pretty tough standard to meet. **And to make this showing, you'll have to file a separate action in your bankruptcy case.</p>
<p>A bankruptcy court will discharge a student loan for undue hardship only if it believes you'll never be able to pay the loan back. For example, if you have a permanent disability and no future ability to work, and you have made reasonable efforts to pay off as much of the loan as you can by using the various non-bankruptcy options available, the court might find that paying back the loan is more than should be asked of you.</p>
<p>If you file for Chapter 13 bankruptcy, you can include your student loans in the repayment plan, and try to make a dent in them over the life of your plan. However, you will still owe whatever student loan debt remains when you complete your plan, unless you can convince the court that it would be an undue burden. Be warned, however, that bankruptcy courts are typically very reluctant to discharge student loans.
<p>I've read about judges that have basically tossed out foreclosure cases because plaintiffs weren't able to figure out who actually owned the loans. I think that some of the mortgage companies went out of business so quickly that it was hard to figure out the state of who owned what. Could a change in the attitude of judges result in more student loans getting tossed?</p>
<p>I can only imagine that a judge would allow student loans to be discharged if the person had a modest income, a sizable family to support, and therefore paying back such loans would prevent the person from supporting his family. Did the article say why his medical bills were so high?</p>
<p>But, to keep the student loan process "somewhat" sound, there is no way judges are going to be able to discharge those loans because a fully-employed 27year old (is he unmarried, no kids?) wants them to be discharged. .</p>
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<p>27 years old, USC grad, accounting major, $150k of student debt, $25k of credit card debt, $20k of medical expenses, credit card late fees.... Shelbourn, who makes about $41,000 a year...<<<<</p>
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<p>Even without the 25k in debt and the 20k in medical bills, he'd still be a bit "strapped" just paying back the $150k in student loans. About how much would such a payment be?? I think I did a calculation that such a loan would be about $1700 for 10 years. Is that right????? Oh MY GOODNESS!!!</p>
<p>If my calculations are correct, then NO ONE except someone who is borrowing such amounts for med school or law school (or similar) should be borrowing that much money. People with "regular incomes" just can't pay $1700 EVERY friggin' month for 10 years and expect to be able to "have a life" (buy a home or even just pay rent!!!!)</p>
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"I'm a practical, numbers person," Shelbourn said.
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Apparently not since he went to a very expensive private university and incurred substantial debt to do so. I'd say the person is in reality 'impractical' and 'NOT a numbers person'.</p>
<p>This reminds me of the story I saw on the news the other day about a guy who started saving for his daughter's college fund her sophomore year of school and now is complaining that all of his investments tanked.</p>
<p>His occupation? Financial adviser.</p>
<p>I think stories like these tell us we really need to be careful who we trust our money with.</p>
<p>According to the loan calculator on finaid.com a $150,000 loan at 8% would be $1819 a month for 10 years and need a recommended annual income of over $200k or $1250 a year for 20 years and need a recommended annual income of $150k.</p>
<p>Every spring we direct parents and students to these calculators and try and get them to think realistically about the debt load and how difficult it will be to make these payments. Some people are shocked and do decide against taking on such debt. Many think they will earn a fortune from day 1 and $200K debt is doable.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input... my guestimation was based on a different interest rate. However, the point is the same. "Regular folks" just can't pay back such crazy loan amounts. Why is this nonsense even being allowed???? The person's future profession should be considered before loaning such amounts. Going to be a surgeon? Ok. Going to be a teacher? No. Going to make $41k per year? No.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to "plug in" a few different amounts and based on an average interest rate, what monthly payments students can expect to have after graduation. </p>
<p>I am certain that most kids (and perhaps parents) haven't "run the numbers" before proceeding ahead with the commitment to take out loans.</p>
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Why is this nonsense even being allowed????
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I agree. It is ridiculous that anyone s/b allowed to borrow $150k for undergrad and that lenders would make such loans. Thye wouldn't lend a student with little income a large sum to buy a car or even a house. Heck I don't think we could borrow that much for a house right now. I wonder if it is the fact that the lenders know the loans cannot be discharged by bankruptcy that makes them willing to loans these amounts that otherwise would not be permitted under 'normal' lending policies.</p>
<p>As a Chapter 7 bankruptcy trustee, I can tell you that it is extremely difficult to meet the hardship requirements to discharge a student loan debt. I have seen it happen only a couple times - in one case, the debtor was elderly and on a fixed income with no prospect for future employment; in the other case, the debtor was severely disabled and unable to obtain employment.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I have seen people use credit cards to finance an education and then discharge those debts in bankruptcy.</p>
<p>He wound up with 150K undergrad debt and still considers himself good with numbers? Hopefully this person will wind up with at least a little more self-awareness by the time all is said and done.</p>
<p>It just sickens me that F/A packages from college include so much in student loans. This is just like dangling a carrot in front of a starving rabbit. All the kid sees is that he is going to get to go to his "dream school."</p>
<p>When my son wanted to take out loans to go to his dream school, we put our foot down. Both my husband and I had SMALL student loans to pay back when we went to college (rates were CHEAP back then) and yet we still grumbled each month that we had to write out those two checks (mine was $50 and his was about $80). </p>
<p>Together, we had borrowed about $10-12k (that was for two people, folks. I borrowed about 5K and he borrowed about 7k). And, yet, paying back that combined $130 EACH AND EVERY MONTH got old REAL FAST. </p>
<p>It didn't take us long to admit that we could have gotten to the same place "education-wise" without having gone into debt. </p>
<p>Seriously, if CC could achieve ONE THING GOOD, it would be to help students and parents realize that taking out all these loans is like signing your life away - in many cases. ( I give exceptions to those who borrow for med school, law school, and similar. But, even those people should avoid borrowing hundreds and hundreds of thousands because those professions don't make a lot of money right away.)</p>
<p>If I were a betting man (which I am not), I'd say that he gets steered to Chapter 13 where the court will at least put a brake on the junk fees assessed by the student loan holders (I belive they can do that because that is not considered part of the loan nor the interest itself), put him on a payment plan for the other debt for 5 years, during which time his income should rise to the point where he can then take on the student loans and accumulated interest.</p>
<p>Now if he were in Judge Judy's Bankruptcy Court (now THAT would be a great spin-off - I can just see her reading folks the riot act over their irresponsible spending), she'd tell him to go get a better paying job and come back later.</p>
<p>Quite frankly, I think he realizes that the longer he waits to file, the higher his income will be and the more debt he will actually have to pay off. He's trying to play the system by playing the fool.</p>
<p>And if I were from the USC Business School, I'd be calling that newspaper reporter to get his phone number because quite frankly they need to be doing a better job of helping their almuni get better jobs. This is just a black eye to the school that this graduate is so screwed up.</p>
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It just sickens me that F/A packages from college include so much in student loans.
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Don't go blaming the college here. No one has to accept student loans. F/A packages include Stafford (or Direct) or Perkins loans all of which are guaranteed by the federal governement. Subsidized means the feds pay the interest for you. This is "financial aid".
Private loans are a whole 'nother story - any student can apply regardless of financial need.
I suspect this student had the max Federal loans but some private loans as well. I doubt he borrowed $150,000. He has probably been in default for sometime and the fees that accumulate grow exponentially. Couple that with unsubsidized Stafford and/or Private loans where the interest in capitalized and one can start out owing significantly more that what they borrowed.</p>
<p>I agree with the others that he is terrible at managing money - at some point one has to cut their losses. There are plenty of folks who transfer and/or quit for a while when school is just too expensive. The kids he graduated from high school with who went to work at McDonalds are far better off than he.</p>