Another head scratching rejection

Parents Forum
61

<p>I doubt this is material in this case but I'll state it again; you need to read the pro forma template that the GC sends out which describes the school. It is public information and is available from your superintendent or director of research or some such person who reports to the superintendent of schools.</p>

<p>It contains a statistical description of your school system. This includes the number of kids on free or reduced lunch; the number of ESL kids in the system, etc. It is NOT trivial- it is the way that adcom's get up the learning curve about the socio-economic status of a city or town. In some places it is updated annually or every other year. In some places it hasn't been updated since Johnson was president and it is a miracle that kids still get into college.</p>

<p>The second part is a detailed description of your HS, including number of AP's offered, % of kids who go on to college, etc. It is frequently inaccurate and it makes it difficult for ADCOm's to assess your kids record in the context of the HS s/he is attending. A town near me had the only AP physics teacher retire several years ago; the transcript still lists AP physics as the highest science course available even though nobody has been able to take AP physics in years.</p>

<p>You can't make this stuff up. Parents, make sure you're read the fine print before the transcript goes out.</p>

62

<p>I'm looking for anything here, wonder if OP's D being just >outside< top 10%, in spite of 95 average, might have had some slight effect. I believe she said 25/220. That coupled with 1700's, even though they didn't pay for and therefore not intend SATs be sent, could add up to rejection. Still, I doubt it. Website mentions 3 and only 3 major categories, as curm said...grades, workload, scores. 95, 9AP's, 31ACT easily makes it for UMd. My hunch...the GC's comments. With so many applications, something not sweet and pleasant (like probably 95% of recommendations) might stand out. Even one sentence. I'd go over every letter and period in your application.</p>

<p>UMd's popular from our NJ hs so I'm only familiar with oos admissions. Selective but not like UNC where our last year's val was WL. Also this past year a friend's D was offered guaranteed January acceptance; I'm fairly certain this was at UMd. Was top 10% but only 1100 M/V. </p>

<p>Last resort, what about January offer? Might your D be interested if offered? I'm surprised she wasn't at least given that option.</p>

63

<p>
[quote]
My hunch...the GC's comments. With so many applications, something not sweet and pleasant (like probably 95% of recommendations) might stand out. Even one sentence. I'd go over every letter and period in your application.

[/quote]

How to do this, given rec's are confidential?</p>

64

<p>^^^^that definitely does not go into our packets, and if you could enlighten me as to what does one ask for if we want to see it? Is it called a pro forma template? OUr transcripts only list how many go to 4 year, 2 year AP weight scoring. No mention of how many take APs or how many even offered.</p>

<p>Wow, what a wonderful list of varied suggestions.</p>

<p>Her SAT experience(practices she got at home never bore out on the test day) so she sent ACT, I did find out without our OK or permission (unless daughter signed somthing I was not aware of)the SAT report school copy went with it, not horrbly out of their data range, maybe this year it might be, again if they don't look at it yet if the skunk was stinking in the background that would be it I suppose. </p>

<p>Did she send a lame activity list, not that I saw, again, the only thing I can think of would be the possibility of the recs not being in the file,and perhaps the hermaphrodite like rec letter left an impression although the status checker page after a time did say teacher recs were there, she had GC call to make sure and CP did say they had everything.
It may have been a complete oversight by GC, though the he/she thing is wrong as well as the omission of the Math rec, which I will verify it did not go, and I have to call them out on that.</p>

65

<p>curmudgeon,</p>

<p>I do agree with you about the scores they say they will ignore. Dd had one sitting of her SAT where she got sick and got lower grades. Some schools list all the scores and write 'highest' next to the best. Others just list the highest grades. I think if they really ignored the low scores, they wouldn't list them at all.</p>

<p>By the way, here's the U-Md Common Data set for 2006-2007. The SATs are low (especially if the math was under 600)and there's no report on ACTs because they're so rarely used. I'm really sorry they were sent without your permission. Our school has a form where you check if you want them added to your transcript or not. We didn't (could have since daughter didn't take ACT as an alternative) and I could see why some people wouldn't want to (like you) and some would (some colleges will take the score right off the transcript and it saves families the cost of sending them separately).
<a href="https://www.irpa.umd.edu/cds/CDS2006_2007.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://www.irpa.umd.edu/cds/CDS2006_2007.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I would still ask for a reevaluation and focus on her SAT and Intel work.</p>

66

<p>Add me to the list. I don't have anything else to add, but this is one of the more bizarre results I've heard of. This needs a talk with the GC and the Principal and the teacher whose rec went a-missing. And possibly a talk with whoever is the overall coordinator of the GC function in your school district.</p>

67

<p>Our school gives out a huge description of the school with the transcript. It describes the town, the free lunch numbers, the awards the school district has received etc. They also give average, mean and ranges for SAT scores, both for SAT1 and for many of the subject tests. They list all the APs offered and how many kids took them, and how many AP scholars awards were given out, but not score averages for the different APs. (I'd love to know those!) It's pretty comprehensive. </p>

<p>As to the OP, this is definitely a case where it would be worth asking what went wrong. I know one kid who got rejected because of the "D" they'd gotten in ___. It turned out to be a typo.</p>

68

<p>I agree that asking for a reevaluation is worth a shot. That said, this does seem to have been an especially tough year at UMD. Last year's applications were higher than previously and this year's were 17% higher than last. Those admit stats aren't yet reflected in the CDS. I know some solid students with respectable stats (all-around great kids) who were rejected this year.</p>

69

<p>CBK,</p>

<p>maybe I have overlooked this because I did not see an answer but did your D apply as an in-state or out of state applicant?</p>

<p>I think that if your D applied out of state, despite the recommendations, with the record numbers of applications to MD and the limited number of seats if she is from out of state it just could be a difficult year for oos admissions.</p>

70

<p>CBK, It's usually referred to as the high school profile:</p>

<p><a href="http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/counseling/profile%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/counseling/profile&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/counseling/profile/sample%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://professionals.collegeboard.com/guidance/counseling/profile/sample&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

71

<p>D was OOS </p>

<p>Ours is a one page transcript one quarter of the page explanation of the grading policy,alongside the transcript
% who go to 4 year, 2 year
No mention of Averages or GPA or how many take APs</p>

<p>Will be going to Administration on that alone, if it is not part of our kids info how the h... do any of them get in beyond the local favorites</p>

72

<p>After reading through this post it is obvious that there were omissions on the part of the GC. But CDK, I have to ask, when did your daughter start the application process with the guidance dept. at her school? I am not trying to say that the GC was in the right here and your daughter was in the wrong, but I have a close relative who is a guidance counselor at a large NC high school. Even though her dept. sends out notices and deadlines to try to get the seniors and their parents to get their requests in, she is inundated with seniors (and parents) who wait until the last minute and want their rec letters, their transcripts, scores, etc. done "today" because the college deadline is imminent. This year she had 97 seniors all who would be applying to an average of 4 schools. She stayed at work M-F until 6:30- 7 pm and worked every weekend (10- 5 Sats. and Suns.) from mid Oct. to Christmas break working for those kids. Most GC's bust their backsides for their students.</p>

<p>Again, I am not trying to imply that your daughter's bad situation happened because of her lack of initiative. I just wanted to point out, and maybe this will help those who are about to start this process, get your applications started well before the deadlines. Even as early as Sept. or Oct. if they have an idea of where they want to go. The guidance counselors will be grateful and maybe, just maybe, they won't be as likely to make a mistake because they are overwhelmed.</p>

73

<p>
[quote]
Yeah she did the priority deadline, but again THAT was another bee in the proverbial bonnet with this GC. Due date December 1st, GC is OUT the 3 days at end of November, college apps in full swing, so daugheter can not verify the GC sent it out, so November 30th she FINALLY sees GC, GC is like "oh, ummm, it never went out", daughter calls me in tears,so I know then the scramble to get it out by that afternoon, resulted in a shoddy rep missing, copy and pasted rec from some "solid young man" in my daughters class.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While this may not be a popular opinion, I am going to put it out there. </p>

<p>I agree with KandKsmom that there is some due diligence on the part of your D's part when applying to college. Keep in mind this is not a 50/50 relationship because it is your child who has the vested interest and should be making sure that everything is done in a timely manner.</p>

<p>I know for my caseload ( I have over 500 students), for students who are applying out of state because they are rolling admissions, give them a list of due dates based on application deadlines. </p>

<p>In addition, I wrote and gave them a whole College Preparatory Handbook- over 50 pages that covers everything from applications, to FA to appeals, etc. (Thanks to CC for helping me to keep this a constantly working document so as new situations come up, I add them to my handbook) in addition to a copy of their transcript and our school profile (ours is 4 pages - (1) 11x 17 sheet of paper printed 2 sided folded to a 8.5 x 11 booklet)</p>

<p>I send out a monthly newsletter each month reminding my seniors of things that need to be done during the current month & the next month because unless your school has a dedicated college counselor, the application process is only a small part of what GC's do during the course of the day. </p>

<p>example:

[quote]

October
[ul]
•DUE TUESDAY, OCTOBER 10th - EARLY ADMISSION/ EARLY ACTION Applications due to your Guidance Counselors (NO EXCEPTIONS! We need time to process Applications)</p>

<p>•DUE MONDAY, OCTOBER 23th- CUNY Applications (NO EXCEPTIONS)</p>

<p>•Friday, November 3rd- Last day to Register for the December 9th ACT Exam (without late fees)</p>

<p>•Monday, November 6th – Last Day to Register for the December SAT/ SAT II Exam (without late fees)</p>

<p>•DUE MONDAY, NOVEMBER 6th - SUNY Applications (Part I) ! (NO EXCEPTIONS! We need time to process the applications!)</p>

<p>•DUE MONDAY, NOVEMBER 20st –Applications with a December 15th Deadline! </p>

<p>[/ul]

[/quote]
</p>

<p>here is my February/ March notice</p>

<p>
[quote]
February</p>

<p>• Many FAFSA Applications Are DUE to your COLLEGES between February 1 and February 15th. Make sure to complete the FAFSA/ CSS Profile on–line (if you have not already done so). Check and recheck your college websites for FA deadlines. Mail the SARs (Student Aid Report) directly to your colleges by this date. Make sure you go to Tap on the Web to complete your TAP applications (for SUNY/CUNY & NYS schools)</p>

<p>•DUE MONDAY, February 4TH – Applications with March 1st and March 15th Deadlines! (No EXCEPTIONS! We need time to process the applications!)</p>

<p>•Check your programs!! Make sure you have been programmed for everything you need in order to graduate in June.</p>

<p>Check your 7th semester grades to ensure all grades / exam scores have been added and are correct.</p>

<p>•Check with your colleges to confirm that applications and financial aid forms are complete</p>

<p>•Contact and research the colleges to which you applied for scholarships
•Start getting ready for any college interviews you may have
•Research Scholarship Information at <a href="http://www.fastweb.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.fastweb.com&lt;/a> and <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegeboard.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>March</p>

<p>•Some students will start hearing decisions from their colleges. Let’s be gracious, happy and celebrate all acceptances. Also let’s be supportive of one another when college decisions start coming in. Remember every school is someone’s dream school.</p>

<p>•Review financial aid packages from colleges. Remember you can ask the college for a financial review if you believe there is something they did not take into consideration in order to increase your financial aid.</p>

<p>•Submit a copy of all acceptance letters and to your Guidance Counselor.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As far as the GC being off at the end of November barring an unexpected emergency, s/he could not have been off those days unless they were approved in advance by the AP (you have no idea of knowing exactly if they were planned days or why the GC needed to be out those days). However, if they were pre-scheduled days, I think the GC should have let his/her caseload know that s/he would not be in school and to plan accordingly.</p>

<p>I would have been livid had your child given me something late November with a December 1 deadline. To me this was just asking for someone to rush her through the process (and to have a teacher/GC not turn in their best work because they were rushed by a deadline). I would have also called you to let you know realistically what could or could not be done for your child at that time. I could only hope that she requested the rest of her stuff from her GC in a more timely basis. I am not making excuses for the shoody work of your child's GC, however what seems like a bad lack of planning on her part did not help the situation.</p>

74

<p>Wow! Sybbie, you do an impressive job. If we'd had you at our school I wouldn't have had to work so hard with my two kids. But it sounds like you definitely do work hard.</p>

75

<p>CBK, every school system which accepts state or federal funds (duh! that's everyone) has the statistics in the superintendents office on SES of the student body. I have no idea what kind of city you live in, but it does the students a signficant disservice, especially since your D is out of state, not to give the adcom's some context around the community. It is far easier for the adcom's to look at the snapshot on the transcript than to have to dig in their memory banks to see if they've ever heard of your town. Rye NY is a stone's throw from Portchester NY; one is suburban and affluent, the other is urban with a high proportion of kids from non-English speaking homes. I wouldn't expect an adcom to know without reading it on a transcript the nuances of these two communities which sit cheek by jowl along Long Island Sound.</p>

76

<p>Maybe I'm wrong--I thought OP's D got things in on time and GC dropped the ball. We were way ahead of time on everything with the HS so we wouldn't stress them out. Probably months ahead of deadlines. And I made sure I had plenty of contact with GC and sent in a brag sheet (that he asked for) and encouraged son to spend time with GC also. However getting the gender wrong and leaving out an important teacher rec? In our hs, students ask teachers directly for recs and we provide them with addressed stamped envelopes to send them out. If the school is going to take that job on, they need to deliver. jmo</p>

77

<p>Sybbie, you sound like a real asset to your students! Our school's guidance department requires 4 full weeks to get together transcript and counselor recs. (Students need to request teacher recs on their own with no help from guidance.) It actually took them a little longer than four weeks (just a couple extra days) to send d's info out.</p>

78

<p>Bethievt and Sybbie,
I, too, sensed the OP's D got things in on time but was unable to verify the sending until the GC returned on 11/30.</p>

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<p>Sybbie,</p>

<p>Of course we went back into file box to check when d gave GC the recs. Her science teacher, and Math teacher gave daughter their Maryland forms back October 20th, daughter gave to GC same day. She said OK, we checked weekly UMD status checker Part One in, the rest blank,we called UMD said thye were behind updating, would take awhile to be webposted, give it time lots of stuff to sort thru. Rec from professor was sent to HS, that dated 11/16. Professor emailed her telling her he snail mailed it in, 11/16 was a Friday, so 3 days give or take would bring it to Tuesday/Wednesday day before Tgiving.She visits GC office 26 to check if professor letter there,(all this time under the assumption the stuff went out as per GC said she would take care of it back in October) GC not in her office, ladies in office dont know if or where to find out if it came or where it would be. GC is not there 27/28/29. First thing 11/30, d asks by the way, the UMD stuff went out right? Also if you could forward the professor rec to them. Thats when GC said Ummm, no it didn't go out.Now I completely understnad they are inundated, I know friends in other districts, the way our SD does things is NOT what goes on in other schools. GC load would be 50 seniors, would venture a guess 30 of those send apps rest do CC. Now when the panic set in, GC came into one of her classes to have her sign something, one of the kids asked what was that all about, daughtr explained, kid said she did that to you too?</p>

80

<p>CBK,
What a nightmare!</p>

<p>Too bad, or luckily, I am out of kids.
For anyone looking for advice in the future, I'd tell them to include unofficial copies of transcripts and test scores with the application, in case the wrong stuff gets into your kids envelope at the school. I'd give the pre-addressed, pre-postaged envelops to the recommenders as well.</p>