Speaking from experience, it’s also the fact of reality hitting home. In high school you have teachers holding your hand and telling you every step to take, what to study and how…many people, myself included, were relatively shell-shocked when they got to college because high school had been easy for them and they didn’t know how to study. It’s also the fact that college is the first real taste of adulthood that you get, one step closer to being “in the real world”. The reality of “this is where things get serious, I need to get it right”, is quite overwhelming.
MomtheChauffeur,
I was chatting recently with a colleague at a professional conference. She worked in a college counseling center for a long time. She commented that the college counseling centers are there for short term issues, not long term therapy. If a student needs ongoing therapy, they are encouraged to find support services in the community.
I am concerned about this issue in regards to the colleges I am considering. In particular looking at RIT, Hobart, SUNY Geneseo, SUNY Binghamton and SU. What resources should I be looking at as I make a decison if I might be concerned about issues related to depression or anxiety? Things are all good now but in the past myself and friends/fellow students experienced issues, particularly with anxiety.
Any thoughts? Particularly interested in peoples experiences with campus resources and the environment regarding mental health issues generally.
It seems to me that students should take their temperament into account while looking for potential colleges to attend.
With support from parents and often therapists, many highly anxious and depressed students, and especially perfectionistic ones, earn outstanding grades in high school.But the parent won’t be attending with the student. So, just because a student can get into a highly competitive school does not make it an appropriate choice. It makes sense for parents to help their son or daughter choose a less competitive, more nurturing school. Since information about disabilities isn’t provided with application material, the colleges can’t weed out students who may be harmed by the competitive nature of the school. It is therefore important for parents and others who know the student to provide appropriate guidance. The top schools are often viewed as desirable because of how selective they are-they cater to a competitive group of students. The more selective they are, the more competitive they are likely to be. That does not change when an anxious student enrolls. In contrast, smaller LACs that are not on the top 10 list but that are often more nurturing are better bets.
Schools should provide adequate mental health services but they are not mental health facilities. Clamoring for more extensive mental health services in a highly competitive school is a losing proposition when the reason for the anxiety is an inherent part of the school-its competitive nature. Students who are highly anxious, depressed or have significant learning difficulties will usually have a better experience if they attend a supportive less competitive school even if they can get into a highly competitive one. The school will not change to accommodate a highly anxious or depressed student and there are no resources that will successfully alleviate anxiety if the student is living in a highly competitive environment. The solution is for parents to help their son or daughter to select schools that are not pressure cookers. Encouraging a highly anxious perfectionistic student to attend a school like, say, the Wharton School is a recipe for disaster regardless of whether or not Penn has good mental health services. That would be like serving an allergic child peanut butter sandwiches because you know you have an epi-pen available. Choose schools that are nurturing rather then highly competitive and choose schools focused on college students rather than large universities.
I’d go so far as saying if a student is on medication for anxiety or depression in high school, applying to highly competitive schools is inappropriate.
Medication is not unusual to help with symptom management. If you are nearsighted or farsighted you wear glasses. If you are prone to anxiety or depression you may take meds to help make things easier to manage. Does not preclude your ability to handle competitive colleges.
JYM626, I see things differently and studies tend to support my view . Medications don’t control symptoms in the way that glasses do. Maybe that perception explains why so many parents of anxious kids are encouraging them to go to highly competitive schools. I applaud parents whose anxious or depressed offspring have done so well in competitive high schools. The outcome is usually due in large part to the tremendous support from parents. I suspect that many kids who a generation ago would have not been considered candidates for any college, due to mental health issues, are now graduating from high schools with honors. But it is usually not the case that the medication is the sole reason for the success.
There are now many supports for students with disabilities at the high school and college level. But accommodations and medication are not usually enough to make a highly competitive environment appropriate for a highly anxious or depressed student. I’m not saying such a student could not make it through such a school. And some schools have excellent mental health services. But, if it were my child, I’d choose a smaller supportive school over a highly competitive one.
In terms of the eye glass analogy, glasses can bring someone’s vision completely into the normal range. Medication does not do the same for people with anxiety disorders. The analogy works only if the person must wear glasses, can’t wear contacts, and if there were no corrective goggles-and if a severely near sighted student wanted to undertake deep sea diving. Well, yes it might be possible to wear corrective glasses inside the goggles and the student could continuously hold onto the glasses underneath the goggles-and continually adjust them-but it would not be ideal. In other words, yes it may be possible with a concerted continuous effort but if there was an alternative, that would probably be better.
The alternative to choosing a smaller supportive climate is often requesting more accommodations but getting those often introduces more problems. Let’s consider a fairly typical example, a perfectionistic anxious student with some learning issues who experiences stomach problems prior to any test and particularly before tests he thinks he won’t Ace. His college application showed he was a straight A student. He has time and a half and can have tests administered in a separate classroom-and delayed if he is sick. When he feels sick he is allowed to take a make up. So he gets extra time to study and only feels well enough to take a test after he has had a couple of extra weeks to ensure he knows the material. His anxiety meds are inconsistent with his need to devoted so many hours to studying. Courses at the large competitive school use primarily multiple choice tests for lower level classes-and a lot of them, move at a fast pace and tend to be impersonal. There is little class discussion due the size of the class so the course grade is often completely dependent on test grades. By mid-semester this student’s grades are in the A-range but he is far behind in terms of completing course requirements because he delays taking the tests so long that he stays a few weeks behind the rest of the class-that means when the next test rolls around he is sick over it. Anti-anxiety medication may help but does not put more hours into the day or weeks into the semester.
In contrast, a small liberal arts school is more apt to have fewer multiple choice tests and have courses where competition is minimized because students within a class all know each other. Discussion is often an important component to the grade. So, even if there are multiple choice tests, they are not as anxiety provoking for most students because they are not worth as much. If I had a child with an anxiety disorder or depression I’d encourage the child to attend a small LAC.
The tendency for parents to view medication as rendering their highly anxious or depressed child an appropriate candidate for a highly competitive college climate is dangerous. And, I suspect it could contribute to the increase in suicides among young people. The very things many parents have done to help their children with mental health issues throughout high school may also contribute to the extent to which they are ill prepared to attend a highly competitive college-yet without doing those things, many would not have made it through high school. If you have provided an over abundance of nurturing, why would you expect your child to thrive in a place with very little? And make no mistake about it, the highly competitive schools are usually not nurturing places. And, it is not necessarily the school’s fault. Most of the students at those schools thrive in those environments rather than thriving despite those environments. There is no way to turn those schools into warm nurturing places without selecting an entirely different sort of student. By competitive I don’t mean competing with each other. Rather, I mean a fast paced academic environment where there is pressure to achieve/accomplish as much as possible amidst a sense of urgency-whether student compete with each other or work collaboratively–those who don’t keep pace lose out.
It seems that there have been more instances of Valedictorians and top students who seemed fine to their parents (even after having had anxiety and depression in high school) ending up not being so fine during their first year at top tier competitive universities. Some have ended tragically. I rarely hear such stories about students in small nurturing LAC’s. Naturally there are fewer students in those colleges but I bet the risks are genuinely lower. Just because you can help your child gain admissions to a bumper sticker type school (top 20) does not mean that is the best place for the student.
"also have seen professors give extra credit assignments, including easy questions on the exam (which TA is the tallest?
And this is exactly what is wrong with the education system. The precious snowflakes get their ego boosted with nonsense like this because they got a better grade, while other countries are challenging their students with real work."
A sense of humor in life is important too. Asking a “cute” question like that isn’t inconsistent with learning. Lighten up.
Exactly. Some kids can handle the extra stress and others cannot, but IMO, parents have a responsibility to tell their kids its perfectly OK not to go to a elite/competitive school. This “meh, tough s***, life’s hard” attitude with regards to anxiety, stress, and depression in HS/college students is just sickening to me… Yes, life is hard sometimes, and that’s normal, but there is a difference between working hard, and pushing yourself beyond the breaking point (and unfortunately, that’s what many kids are doing)…
If you work your ass off to get into a bumper sticker school, but then have to live the rest of your life with debilitating and/or recurring anxiety/depression issues stemming from your stressed out childhood, what’s the point??
Again, every student is different. Some can handle the extra stress, and others cannot. Bottom line: we shouldn’t be shoving square pegs into round holes.
fractalmstr, I agree. The worst situation is when anxious students get into schools like Penn and then want the school to be sensitive to their needs by giving the student accommodations that give the student huge advantages that others don’t get-like postponing tests until their stomach is sure that an A is in the offering. If you are too anxious for a competitive school go to a less competitive school. That seems basic. Don’t go to a highly competitive school and expect it to change for you.Others are there because it is competitive and they don’t want you cheating and ending with A’s but under unfair circumstances.
More importantly, why would one choose a competitive school if competition makes them anxious. A better bet for a good 4 years is a more nurturing school.
What studies, lostaccount? Can you post a link to a few?
Your eyeglasses analogy may be helpful for management of ADHD symptoms, but not for anxiety. Anxiety is best managed by a combination of medication (when indicated) and cognitive-behavioral therapy. And it seem you are misunderstanding how accommodations work for students with documented disabilities.
To clarify, I had initially used the eyeglasses analogy, but its better suited for a comparison to the “focus” ability and ADHD, but intended in my prior post here to explain that anxiety can be a very manageable emotion, just as vision can be managed as well. Don’t disagree that some tightly wound, bright students may often do better is a small, nurturing environment. But some students get anxious but rise to the challenge, and it can in some cases be motivating. If it is debilitating, that is another thing. Some schools are better than others at providing support services for students with situational anxiety and diagnosed anxiety disorders. Many schools offer groups on managing test anxiety, as it is such a common experience. But rarely will a student get an accommodation to delay as test until their GI symptoms and the management thereof will somehow magically assure an A. A student might be permitted to take more breaks, or not be marked as tardy f GI sx arise, or may be permitted to miss a class/test without needing a drs note each time. But the disability has to be clearly documented and the accommodations clearly spelled out as to how they allow for equal access, not preferential access, to the learning environment. And the accommodation has to be accepted and offered by the school. Its bot as cavalier as your comment, which seemed a bit flip, made it seem.
No, the eyeglass analogy does not work for ADHD either. It would only work if eyeglasses, when taken off, have impaired other aspects of sight and if other senses are impacted wearing and removing the glasses. It is time to stop thinking of medication as a cure. it allows for someone to cope better or function better but it does not put them in the “typical” range even when on the medication, let alone once it wears off. Consider these factors: What should a student do about medication if everyone is going out for a beer? Oh, they are too young so that would not happen? What about a student on anxiety meds who wants to pull an all nighter? Should the student not take the meds to be able to stay up? How does the student titrate ADHD meds when they increase anxiety and focus? More anxiety meds? Or less focus? As the meds wear off but the student still has a few more hours of studying to go, should the student take more ADHD meds and simply stay up, since then sleep won’t be possible or chuck the idea of working a few more hours. And this is nothing compared to the real life issue that keep medication from rendering a student “typical”. Placing a student with ADHD or anxiety or depression in a very competitive climate is a threat. Only the family can decide if that threat is worth the benefits of having a “high prestige” degree. And yes, the combination of accommodation and GI issues does allow students to delay tests. Because the stomach issues fall under sickness that is usually an allowable excuse for a make up.
By the way, anxiety is emerging as a very unmanageable perception or emotion and perhaps one of the most debilitating of all. And it is often co-morbid with depression. And anxiety may drive the depression rather than the other way around. Fears and anxiety used to be considered minor problems. That isn’t true any more. They are a major contributor to disability and they get worse, not better, as someone ages. If I had a child with an anxiety disorder the last place I’d want to see that student is at a large competitive university.