any one else feel like your kid is a slouch?

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>ok, so maybe the title of this thread was a little dramatic.</p>

<p>I love to read these posts and these forums have provided so much help to me....but I just have to comment that wow, CC seems to be filled with super high-achieving kids.</p>

<p>my daughter is a "good" student. (A's and B's, an occasional C). She was i.d.'ed gifted in first grade, she is a creative type, obviously focused on theatre...but also loves to read, paint, draw, construct, etc. She really doesn't have any EC's much, because she is in some way involved with a production almost year 'round.</p>

<p>Her UW GPA is about a 3.4-3.5. She is a junior and has taken 3 APs, and most of the rest of her classes are advanced. Her ACT definitely needs to come up (low 20's).</p>

<p>But my question is: with stats like these, I am now wondering if she can even gain admittance into some schools, let alone pass an audition. I'm even thinking she'll have better luck with auditions than she will getting into schools academically. </p>

<p>If there is already a thread on this topic, I would love to read through it/them...because I need some schools in the midwest/mideast/southeast which would admit a kid with these stats into a great BA program. Oh, yes, and finances are definitely an issue. We will likely qualify for a little Pell, but probably not total ... which means we will need to piece together whatever aid we're able. she has toured some state schools, and also some small LACs- and she has liked both.</p>

<p>My daughter is a great (can a mom say that?) actress....at SETC recently, she was called back to over 45-50 schools there in their high school audtions, and she has also won awards our statewide theatre conference, etc....</p>

<p>Thank you if anyone has thoughts on the matter :-)</p>

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<p>Chaptertwo, your daughters GPA would be totally fine for most BFA programs. In fact better than fine. There are really only a few BFAs where high stats are necessary, and I think her GPA would even be acceptable for those. (Her test scores would need to come up though.)</p>

<p>I am sure there are plenty of BA programs too. Maybe some other people can give you some suggestions…</p>

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<p>If you are thinking of nonauditioned BA programs you might want to look at schools that do not consider test scores. [SAT/ACT</a> Optional 4-Year Universities | FairTest](<a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional]SAT/ACT”>ACT/SAT Optional List - Fairtest)</p>

<p>This list includes some excellent BA schools like Bates, Bard, Bennington (you can see I’m looking the list alphabetically. But anyway, you get my drift. I think trying to raise an ACT score from the low 20s to the low 30s, which is the minimum you’d probably need for substantial merit aid, may be a frustrating task. So, cherry-picking schools that will look to your daughter’s strengths might be a better solution.</p>

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<p>What state do you live in? You mention that finances will be an issue… How much do you think your family can afford to pay for college. Does your state have any state specific grant programs for going to school in state?</p>

<p>Most schools do not meet full financial need. And many of those that do are highly selective academically and/ or artistically. However, your D should be able to put together a list of school that could be more affordable by looking at what scholarships may be available for her academic stats at specific schools, asking those schools if artistic and academic awards can be stacked, looking at in-state schools that may be affordable, etc…</p>

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<p>I know that is a common feeling when hanging around CC in general, but I think you’ll notice if you look that theatre kids have all kinds of academic stats and scores. Some are unconventional thinkers, and some are just too busy with things they think are more important. Some of them are just not perfect - like most of the population. It’s a CC myth that “everyone” is in the 99th percentile, and that it is the only way to get into college.</p>

<p>I recommend searching the other areas of this website (and the internet in general) for information for “B” students, for test-optional schools, and for merit aid, in general, especially for non-auditioned programs.</p>

<p>As for making a reasonable theatre school list: 1) Many BFAs pay minimal attention to academic stats - it is really all about the audition; 2) Many wonderful BFAs are in schools with less selective academic admissions requirements; 3) Many excellent BA programs are perfectly appropriate for your D’s stats, even if she doesn’t raise her ACT; and 4) Her stats will qualify her for merit aid at many schools, but it will take some looking and asking to figure this out.</p>

<p>As with many college admissions, don’t get pulled into a “top 10” mentality, and try not to let your D get sucked in, either (although that is very hard). Sure, if she’s ready to try, put a few academic, artistic and financial reaches on her list - you never know what will happen. She certainly is not a “slouch.” But then bring in schools that are more “match” and “safety” - in all areas. The only safety in theatre is non-auditioned, although there are auditioned programs with slightly higher acceptance rates than others.</p>

<p>When she figures out a few of her preferences, we’re happy to make suggestions. Size, location, type of program, curriculum details, interests in productions, study abroad, the availability of scholarships, and other factors are all a matter of personal interests and needs.</p>

<p>I am aware of good merit - and talent - aid available to students with ACTs below 30, so don’t give up hope. And if her goal is an auditioned program, have some good conversations with her about how to prioritize her time increasing her stats and prepping for her auditions. It’s a big juggle for these kids.</p>

<p>Good luck! And keep asking questions. We’re here for you.</p>

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<p>Thank you all, for your responses.</p>

<p>I have read and researched a lot thus far, but not nearly enough :-)</p>

<p>I have not really seen any schools (auditioned BFAs or non-auditioned BAs) which meet need artistically…are there any?</p>

<p>We are in the southeast, in a state with no real state-specific incentives. The list of test-optional schools is helpful. I see Baldwin-Wallace is on the list, and their tuition seems relatively low for out-of-state (comparatively speaking anyway). I know they have an auditioned BFA for MT, but not sure about straight theatre. She has not fully decided between a BFA or BA, but I think she is leaning toward BA. She has been in a large performing arts high school, is consistently cast in good roles, and will be directing a project on her own in her senior year with the blessings of the administration…as well as doing an independent study with the theatre department.</p>

<p>Thank you, KatMT, I guess my initial question was to try to determine what schools, if any, would be aligned with her stats. Thought there may be other parents on here whose kids did not blaze trails in test-taking, but made decent grades (but not 4.5 good :-))), and that might have a few to recommend. </p>

<p>I’m off to do more research on the test-optional list :-)</p>

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<p>Please don’t think that your D is a slouch. To perform nonstop and get those kinds of grades took a lot of dedication and hardwork. Please don’t ever compare your kid to the stats of those reported here on CC. The colleges really do take a holistic approach to looking at performance, grades, SAT/ACT and auditions are first and foremost important in this picture. Read these threads to get information on the nature of the programs and gloss over the glowing information that could make you and your D feel inadequate. Trust me there will be many options for a talented and competent student such as your D. Please give us more information as to what state you are living in or specific states that you would like her to focus on including regions that you will not consider. </p>

<p>Some schools that you may want to check out are: Coastal Carolina, Adelphi, Long Island CW Post, Point Park, JMU, Rider and google the name of the school with “merit Scholarship” and it will tell you the criteria needed to get one. She has plenty of time to retake her ACTs and possibly take SATs to boost up her scores. She may be a better performer on the SATs than the ACTs check out the differences.</p>

<p>I don’t know if the area meets your needs but Point Park has an excellent BA or BFA program with lots of opportunities to perform and flexible options for taking the same kinds of courses that the BFA kids take but having the flexibility to double major.</p>

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<p>EmmyBet, that crossed, thank you so much.</p>

<p>Your advice is sound - and appreciated. Luckily, my daughter is low-maintenance in terms of her choices. She is not going to be too particular, and is not hung up on prestige of program, whatsoever. However, I agree that 1 or 2 “reaches” may be a good idea, because as you point out, you never know.</p>

<p>How to afford it will be the deciding factor anywhere…including that she can’t be too far from home because of travel costs.</p>

<p>I very much appreciate these thoughtful replies.</p>

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<p>Yes, there are talent-based scholarships. Muhlenberg College (Allentown, PA), which has a wonderful non-auditioned BA, holds auditions specifically for talent awards. It’s a great school and often accepts kids with your D’s stats.</p>

<p>My D is in the BFA at Adelphi (on Long Island), and their merit scholarships start with 3.5 and high 20s ACT, and the theatre department can add talent money above that.</p>

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<p>chaptertwo…first and foremost, your daughter will have many options. My completely average (grade-wise!) son with decent (not spectacular) SAT scores had wonderful options and all with some type of talent or merit (I know…right!!!) scholarship. Is the northeast completely out?</p>

<p>I believe there is a thread on here about BA programs…it might be quite helpful. You are going to be shocked at how many there are that you have never heard off. CC is a font of information, don’t let it scare you.</p>

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<p>Those stats are pretty good. If you can work to get the ACT up some, she should be fine. I’m in GA and had many of your same issues. My daughter is tech, so it was a little easier for her to be accepted on the artistic end, but she still had to get through the academic part. I’ll give you our list and perhaps that will help. </p>

<p>Coastal Carolina (depending on where you live, you might be able to get in state tuition)
Otterbein
UNCSA
Webster
Point Park
Shenandoah
Wright State
Brenau/Gainesville Theatre Alliance</p>

<p>Our reach schools were Carnegie Mellon and UNCSA. She did apply to and was accepted to Evansville. We really shouldn’t have gone down that path, though. It is way too academic for her. We ended up pulling that application. University of Central Florida was also on the list. Again, we ended up pulling that one due to academics again. </p>

<p>Of the ones I’ve listed, Wright State and Webster had the best financial packages. Brenau also gave a decent FA package, but my daughter just hated it! She chose Otterbein for a couple of reasons. She wasn’t artistically accepted to Webster, which would have been our cheapest school by far. Wright State had the second best package, but we ultimately decided against it because of the more traditional core. Otterbein doesn’t require a math for the BFA kids, so that made it our final choice. (My daughter has a disability in math, along with ADD/anxiety.) Additionally, Otterbein has a wonderful program, and we really liked the faculty/staff/students. We LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Coastal Carolina. We tried for in state tuition through the Academic Common Market with no luck. However, I do know the MT program is approved for GA through the ACM, so depending on where you live, it might work for you. Let me know if you have any questions.</p>

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<p>Since Muhlenberg was mentioned, I will add that Muhlenberg is also a test optional college.</p>

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<p>ok, great, this is really helping (with the commiseration, the reassurances, and the helpful list).</p>

<p>Very good to know the specifics of which financial aid packages were best for you (fully realizing that all situations are different).</p>

<p>ugadog, your list looks like an excellent list for me to flesh out…CCU has been highly recommended, but I think it may be too far :slight_smile: Wright State is a real possibility, and that surprises me that their aid package was good … I keep reading that state schools for out of state kids do not give aid…I will also be reading up on Point Park and Otterbein.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if we could go the full-out conservatory route or not. I do believe her preference would probably be a small to medium LAC…but I know she could also handle a state school and make friends and function within a niche environment…</p>

<p>You’re really helping me focus, all, and I appreciate that.</p>

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<p>Somebody else will know about this…isn’t there an arrangement among some of the states in the Southeast whereby you can get a tuition break on certain out-of-state colleges if your own state doesn’t have the exact program you’re looking for?</p>

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<p>There has been quite a bit of discussion in this thread about schools that rely largely or almost entirely on an audition and that is certainly true. However, most of these schools are BFA programs. So one of the things your daughter needs to think about is whether she wants to go down the BFA versus BA route. As a very general rule, a BFA program is generally around 80-90 performance related credits and 30-40 general academic while the BA will be reversed. Though all schools need to be looked at closely because there are some BA programs (UCLA e.g.) that look and feel more like a BFA program. Some BA program (UCLA e.g.) are audition based but most are not. And while most BFA programs do require auditions, some do not. Are you confused yet?</p>

<p>My daughter’s academic stats are not as good as your daughter’s stats and she ended up with several good choices and settled on UNCSA. She was only looking at BFAs. Here are a list of some to look at which are not particularly fussy or do not care at all about grades. I am sure there are many more you can find digging through this board but these are the ones I’m particularly familiar with. For the most part, these schools range from almost impossible to just very difficult to get into but the decisions of who gets in is not being made based on grades. </p>

<p>Juilliard
Carnegie Mellon
SUNY – Purchase
Rutgers
UNCSA
Ithaca
Hartt
U of Arts
Cincinatti Conservatory of Music
Coastal Carolina
Otterbein</p>

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<p>Sorry, I missed your post that she was more looking for a BA LAC than a conservatory before I posted mine. Obviously, none on my above list would fit into that category.</p>

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<p>ActingDad, helpful, nonetheless. I esp like your comment about very difficult to almost impossible to get into … because this is the kind of straight talk I need.</p>

<p>In terms of the BFA vs BA - my daughter has said this sentence fairly recently: “I don’t necessarily aspire to be a professional actress … but I believe I will always want theatre in my life”.</p>

<p>I guess that is what I’m basing my thoughts on a likely BA on…</p>

<p>The thing is, is that I almost feel as if she’d stand a better chance in admissions for an auditioned program, because she is a confident, generally non-flustered kid who typically does very well in auditions. I would describe her as quietly confident. (it’s the procrastination, and distaste for nose-to-the-grindstone studying that gets on my nerves), but her work ethic, audition ethic, preparation, etc., where theatre pursuits are concerned are top-notch :slight_smile: I feel like her acting talent is what may be most appealing about her as her grades are just decent, and her test scores relatively low … that is why I’ve left talk of BFA in the discussion. is this nuts?</p>

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<p>I do think that sentence sounds more like a BA. My daughter fell much more into the I can’t imagine or think about doing anything else in her life. </p>

<p>However, the BA/BFA thing is only a starting point. Your daughter might not like a true conservatory where its 24/7 in a studio but a BFA program that was more a mix of academics, the study of theater and not just voice, movement, scene study, etc. all day long. We’ve made lists around here on just about everything but I don’t remember if we’ve ever compiled a list here on audition based BA programs. That might be worth checking out if you think her audition will be a bigger asset than test scores. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>There are auditioned BA programs your daughter can look at, if she wants a BA and her acting talent may exceed her schoolwork grades. Chapman U comes to mind, while I am not sure what their loyalties lie in regards to acting talent vs. merit. There are also flexible BFA programs that will allow her to pursue all interests, and BFA Theatre Studies programs that are not just focused on acting but on all areas of theatre (i.e. Southern Methodist University’s BFA program in this area.)</p>

<p>This may be an unpopular opinion, but if your child does decide to go out for acting programs, but is afraid of her grades knocking her down a peg in terms of desirability, I would recommend trying a few walk-ins at Unified auditions if possible. This way, the school has to see acting first, and if they are really caught by her talent, they will perhaps push grades aside and focus on recruiting her because she blew their socks off. I have heard of this happening to a few kids. </p>

<p>Your child’s grades should be just fine (I got into a few colleges without a 4.5), but as the others have said that depends on what programs she is looking at. If she wants a Yale BA than we might have a problem but a school like Montclair State might care a little less. Great grades are definitely a huge bonus (particularly financially) but they are not always essential.</p>

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<p>Well, if she wants a BA then most of the schools on my list won’t work. Some of them do offer a BA in theatre, but I have not looked at their specific BA program. My daughter only wanted a BFA. She really wanted a conservatory or conservatory style, which is what Otterbein offers.</p>