@T26E4 - that’s a point we keep trying to drive into D17’s head. She reallyreallyreally wants to go to one of two Midwest LACs, and the net price calculator shows both potentially offering decent scholarships. But when the NPC shows that the delta between her out of pocket with the legacy award at my alma mater and the cost at her favorite LAC is still about $12k, it’s hard for us to really encourage her to go with the LAC. There’s something about knowing your child will start post-collegiate life with limited to no student debt that’s nice.
Someone told me today that if an LAC really wants your child, they’ll negotiate down, so we should pick up the phone if we aren’t happy with the initial automatic aid offer. Is this accurate? Does it depend on the school?
@coloradomom2015 one of my friends did this-she had the aid package for one school and she went and talked to the fin aid people at the school her kid wanted to go to and they ended up matching it. I will say this woman is the soul of discretion and finesse, though, and her kid is pretty accomplished, so I think there are good ways to go about it and “don’t let the door hit your butt on the way out” ways…
I can’t speak for most here, although I suspect the great majority of readers, if not posters, have ordinary kids. My kids are certainly that. Their ACTs are in the mid to higher mid twenties like yours, SAT’s in the same range. So I did what was natural.
I sent them both to State Universities where they will get a decent education (if communications with a minor in spanish is considered that), will hopefully get some life experiences as they transition to adulthood, and they will at least graduate debt free without costing me an arm and a leg. And they are having a blast. Both joined sororities, and one decided to graduate on the five year plan. . . not that big of a deal given the minimal cost of tuition.
If they were brilliant, I might have felt an obligation to send them Ivy’s way, or as close to Ivy as they could have gotten. Thankfully, there was no need to make that financial sacrifice.
The way I see it, they will have all of their lives to set the world on fire if that is what they want to do. But they need to enjoy college now because after college, they will have employment and obligations to deal with just like the rest of us. And honestly, I don’t see where the elite fare any better in life than the ordinary. They may or may not end up with better jobs and make more money… but that in and of itself does not gurantee any sort of superior life satisfaction score. Its all in the cards…and who they marry.
Forgot to add they both are within 2.5 hours driving distance from home. The youngest wanted to go to Auburn. But why pay private tuition prices for a public University. She loves USF instead… and USF has a football team too.
Here is what I have concluded about ordinary kids from non eligible financial aid families and paying for colleges that are likely to admit average ordinary students based solely on my limited research for my very average D16 and what is likely to be my very average D18 and my not eligible for financial aid family.
Caveat: Most is not ALL and this is just a generalization. It definitely is not scientifically analyzed nor can it be backed up with the CC ever coveted, concrete evidence. Guess that makes it “gasp” anecdotal?!
For the average kid (read 23-28 ACT range, B+/A- GPA range) most of the private schools discount (merit) their crazy sticker prices and end up in the $34k - $38k range. Most OOS publics end up in the same range. In-state runs about $18K - $22K range, depending on if it is a state flagship or a directional. All in - tuition, room and board, give or take a few thousand dollars for travel/books etc. The likelihood of snagging an outside academic scholarship or even a scholarship related to some average kid EC interest is slim. Average kids can’t beat the stiff competition for academic scholarships and most scholarships have a gpa/test score cut off that the average kid usually misses by 1 or 2 points.
Apparently the exception to this generalization is always Alabama, lol.
So, guesstimate target figure is $36K for private or OOS and $22K for instate and don’t count on another penny of “scholarship”. If it more than $42K you are paying too much for an average education for an ordinary kid and if it is under $17K it’s too good to be true. So far it has held true for my family. We are paying for mediocrity. It is what it is. Know it going in and you won’t be disappointed. If you happen to stumble upon a deal than you can do the happy dance.
Our experience is somewhat similar, and of course also anecdotal . However I seem to find that the private school merit “discount” for the average student is a little bit less and as a result the average cost seems to be more in the 38 to 46 range. And, most fall in the 42 to 46 which I agree is too much money for an average education. If you get a little bit more selective on the college, your average student can still get a discount but it’s less leaving your net cost closer to 48- mid 50s if you’re lucky. Still too much.
My biggest issue is not this so much, the reality is colleges are a business and they pay for stats. I get that. What frustrates me is when you try to solicit feedback on these average type schools that will get you down to a price you can live with, the vast majority on CC will try to talk you into "better schools "that are unaffordable for you.
I understand, and can appreciate, that my idea of an “average” school for my average B+/A- kid might be vastly different for us than most here. We are not looking at top 25 schools, not at top 50 and for some, numbers 26 through 50 are considered “average” for us being in the top 100 might work or even having it ranked at all lol.
But really, so if a private LAC that seems affordable is ranked in the 70’s or 90’s, may seem like a good fit for a child, does that really mean it’s a horrible idea and choice and one should spend 50k a year to avoid the horror? I have a hard time buying that
@labegg, I’m not going to argue with your observations, but I think you can only really generalize within a specific state. I live in PA and the in-states run $20k-$34k (and if you want engineering, it’s the $34k).
Also, even at Alabama, you need high standardized scores for the big merit money (32 ACT; 1400 Old SAT). (If two-thirds will suffice, a 30/1330 will do the trick.)
My anecdotal observation is that at most privates where your student is a competitive for admission, they are quite tuned in to what your in-state flagship charges, and the final number will be within a thousand or two of that one. It is what it is. I’d be more sanguine about this stuff if I lived in FL!
@LucieTheLakie I wish that were true for us, it would really expand options lol! Our Flagship runs 25K and I think we’ve only seen maybe 3 privates come in under 30…all in either Wisconsin or Illinois. Neither of which my child were consider. To your point though, “competitive” comes in to play although these are schools where he is solidly in the middle 50 and not overall competitive schools at all. It would be nice to say, oh just go to the flagship, but if you have a kid who really really doesn’t want the huge school, rah rah experience, that sounds like torture.
@labegg I have to disagree with you about the amount of money you get from private schools. My D had slightly higher stats than you list, applied to three private schools, and only had one come in at the range you’ve listed. The key of course is what level of private school you are applying to. The reach gave her nothing, the match gave her 15k which dropped the 65k price tag down to 50k, and the safety came in at 30k net. If you apply only to safety level schools then maybe your statement holds.
eandesmom,
"I understand, and can appreciate, that my idea of an “average” school for my average B+/A- kid might be vastly different for us than most here. We are not looking at top 25 schools, not at top 50 and for some, " - We were on the same page, further actually, we did not care for rankings at all and D. did not check them, was not important for her. Just stick to your own criteria, do not listen to anybody, it will work!! Looking back, it has worked very well for both of mine. However, with the youngest, we specifically focused ONLY on colleges that we knew thru our personal research, will offer her significant Merit awards and as a surprise, one private offered her the highest amount. She still choose the in-state public as it met the most of her personal criteria, HER OWN criteria, not her friends’, not her GC’s.
@eandesmom, I’m sure your observation is much more reliable than mine. My anecdotal observation (and it really was just an anecdote!) was based more on the “full need met” types of LACs and the fact that our in-state flagship is so freaking expensive. The less competitive schools (ergo less flush with endowment money) wanted something in the $45,000 range.
My only advice, which isn’t worth much, is to identify a LAC where your kid is closer to the 75th percentile and ask if they’d consider meeting you halfway between the original offer and the price of your flagship. And if that does’t work, see if you can find a nice smaller liberal arts community within your state flagship. There are ways to make a big school feel smaller, and there will be lots of kids there who didn’t get to go to their first choice school either.
(It’s worked out for my kid, if that’s any consolation. He wanted teeny tiny and ended up at huge and found his peeps. He even likes all that rah rah stuff now. )
Applied to 2 privates. Merit aid offers and instate scholarships dropped one from 60,000 to 26,000 and one from 50,000 to 16,000. It really depends on the student and the school.
@LucieTheLakie Sadly there is a big difference even at full need met schools, if they don’t feel you have need. For the few that do, it’s only due to COA’s higher than the others do the end net price is similar.
For the truly average ordinary kid, finding a school where you are in the 75th percentile that you actually want to attend is not as easy as it sounds. Plus, to your point, those schools don’t have the same kinds of endowments. Luckily for us we have a very strong directional that will absolutely work and may well be the only affordable option he ends up with.
It is bigger than he’d like but livable (15k) and a great school. I’d like him to have more options than that and we will see how it plays out. Yes, we may have to go ask for more money he’s being picky about location so is constraining his own options to a degree, but he knows that.
@carolinamom2boys if I remember your son had high stats though. Was he above the 75% at each if these schools? The problem is that for kids with ACTs in the mid 20s, those schools are hard to find.
@LucieTheLakie I totally agree numbers can vary by state and that the privates are very in tune with what your state flagship runs and strive to make their cost come in somewhere close to that number.
I was low on my in-state numbers as related to flagship. After a quick googling I see most states run $26k - $28k for flagship; Ohio State, UT-A, Binghampton, Michigan State, Wisconsin, UMass, most but by no means all (It appears PA has an over inflated view of it’s higher education, PA is $34k, tongue in cheek on that one). In the end, at our house with 12 acceptances, they all came in around $36k - $38k . Sure there were some high outliers like Drexel and Pitt (which were nearly identical in offer for us…which seems to support the in-tune observation, lol) and low outliers like Ohio University. The fact that the majority they all ended up around the same price made making a decision harder.
Honestly, there seems to be is a huge difference in what is offered to kids with a 28 and kids with a 26. There definitely is a line drawn in the sand IMO.
There are lots of options for the average student you just have to flush them out and I agree finding a match can be hard. I still stand by the magic number range of $36-$38k for average schools (which are, IMO, USNWR #75-125) for the average student.
We are currently paying $37k for our dear average D16 to attend what we think is an above average private university for ordinary kids (despite it’s USNWR rating of #86).
“I see most states run $26k - $28k for flagship; Ohio State” - why it has to be a flagship? That flagship Ohio State gave my kid only $3k / year, while she ended up attending at another in-state which matched her criteria much better on the full tuition Merit award and one private gave her even more $$. Looking at flagships only is very limiting…but if it is YOUR criteria, so be it, otherwise, flagship does not really have any advantages over other in-state colleges.
There are a whole bunch of schools that, at full price, are below $30k, and with the scholarships and financial aid, the price can come in below $20k. That is for both instate and OOS. You can have that good price but you’ll have to give up a preferred location, the prestigious name, and maybe the size of the school.
You can have it all if you can afford it all. Most of us can’t.
For D1,the thing she gave up was size. She wanted about 3000, is at a school with 10,000, and now can’t imagine being at a smaller school. For D2, it was also size. She wanted 5000-8000, and ended up with 3,500. She’s visited friends at big schools and I think has a little regret that she’s not at a really big state school too. Like 30,000, not even the 8000 she originally wanted.
Gee, sometimes 16 and 17 year olds don’t really know what they want.
Sometime you have to give up something, and sometime you do not, depending on you criteria for choosing. The love that institution shows to your kid in Merit awards offer is a very good indication that kid will fit there. That is why the same applicant will receive very different offers from the in-state publics in the SAME state. Some feel very strongly that the kid will do very well at their place, and others are not so sure. We have learned it way before college application, when D. was choosing her HS among few privates in our town. She attended the one that offered her good Merit award and was forever thankful that we used the Merit award as a sign of “deeper” love. As predicted, it has happened again when she decided on her college. Merit awards were predictors of great student / institution match at both HS and college. But as mentioned above “sometimes 16 and 17 year olds don’t really know what they want”, then it becomes much harder. Mine knew exactly what she wanted, her criteria list was basically “cut in stone”.
^^ And your kid was about as far from “ordinary” (the subject of this thread) as it gets, too. What schools are throwing big merit awards at ordinary kids? Do tell!
@LucieTheLakie the low cost OOS list that is a sticky in the financial aid forum has most of them I think. I don’t disagree that they out there, but there are none on the list that at least for this child, meets his needs better than the in state directional. So we will take our chances at some private that have better odds of decent offers and if not, fall back on the safety.
