Any rational reason.....?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Perspective really is key here, and I too like what notredame had to say.</p>

<p>I also want to say that while I absolutely understand the several valid reasons why kids - from the more balanced to the less-so - might <em>want</em> to take the test again, that doesn’t mean that I as a parent endorse it (leaving out certain financial-aid driven reasons, though I can’t help pointing out here that the Presidential Scholarship = a trip to DC and a photo op with POTUS, not any cash for college). </p>

<p>There are a lot of things my kids feel utterly natural, understandable desires to do, that I understand and even sympathize with, but don’t encourage. There are plenty of things <em>I</em> feel an understandable desire to do, that I don’t endorse. It’s understandable for me to want to cut off the guy who’s been tailgaiting me in traffic, but yeah, I don’t. I’d like to leave my grocery cart in the middle of the parking lot when it’s pouring rain, but yeah, I don’t. Most of you probably don’t either, and you wouldn’t want your kids to.</p>

<p>Here we are, on a board where people come to wring their hands, justifiably, over the ratcheting up of college anxiety. Isn’t that something we would like to combat? </p>

<p>Seems to me that in every household where a kid says “oooooh, if I took one more flyer at it, I could get my 760 up to an 800,” we could say, with honest sympathy, words to the effect that we <em>get</em> that, and we admire determination and being goal-oriented (and whatever other positive values we see behind the request) - and then make a different suggestion. Like - let’s take that SAT fee and donate it to an organization that helps families who can’t afford ONE fee, let alone another?* And let’s go spend five hours on some Saturday helping someone else out. </p>

<p>I’m not perfect, and my family’s not perfect. I expect to be attacked for saying this, and that’s okay. I don’t mean to offend. Please see both that I understand why kids want to do this, and that I recognize certain circumstances in which it’s actually a reasonable tactic for financial concerns.</p>

<p>But when I see people endorsing a kid’s need to pursue an 800 for “bragging rights,” I do feel a need to speak up. “Bragging rights” are odious. I happen to think it’s our job as parents to ask, Whom do you plan brag to, and what would that really say? And I think it’s our job to model some different behaviors and goals.</p>

<p>I’m putting on my asbestos vest, now. </p>

<p>*Our public education foundation has a fund like this - maybe yours does too.</p>

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<p>PS - mam1959, none of that was directed in any way at you. I completely get what you’re saying about what’s going on in your house.</p>

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<p>Harriet–Paying3tuitions, a parent, described a “bragging rights” situation, and then VERY CLEARLY said that s/he did not endorse it and was merely reporting. Narcissa, whom I believe is a kid, also mentioned the bragging rights scenario, and also did not endorse it.</p>

<p>So if you need to don a flame-proof vest, perhaps it is because you are accusing people of doing something that they have not done–at least, not in this thread: endorsing bragging rights as a reason to retake the SAT.</p>

<p>I continue to think that people’s views on this topic have a lot to do with their own experience of standardized tests. If they are pretty much a breeze for you, you don’t think of retaking as a big deal. If you regard them with trepidation, you think that a student with a good score who wants to retake must be a crazed and obsessed perfectionist to subject themselves to it. It’s simply not true.</p>

<p>When it comes to our household, Wis75 is correct and Notredame is completely off the mark.</p>

<p>Does the crazed, grade-grubbing perfectionist exist? Sure. But it’s not the whole story.</p>

<p>When you are considering financial reasons, btw, do recall that there are families for whom admission to a need-blind school that meets need without huge loans is a necessity. And yeah, at those schools, another 60 points might just help, as an earlier poster showed. </p>

<p>And btw, I do not regard this as “an attack,” and I hope you don’t either.</p>

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<p>Sorry, but in our household–we did not encourage the re-taking of SATs for the pure sport of it! And, I do not think that I am off the mark in saying that college will be a rude awakening for many kids that feel the need to take the test as a game! Sure, I understand completely about scholarships, etc. (but just make sure that those schools are really “need’blind”–I personally don’t think that they exist!) And, if you haven’t noticed lately–there is an awful lot of stress on college campuses and I for one hope that my college student continues to handle it and grow into a mature, responsible citizen. Again, my opinion is just that–and I certainly think that all of the posts need to be considered.</p>

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<p>Great post from mam1959 - especially the phrase “intrinsic achievement” - I think this perfectly captures something very important.</p>

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<p>Consolation, you’re absolutely right about Paying3Tuitions, and I should maybe have specifically noted that I was aware she was describing, not endorsing. Her post was not at all one that unnerved me. (P3T is one of my all-time favorite posters, in fact.)</p>

<p>Yep, I thought I had said pretty clearly that I know there can be circumstances in which retakes are important to financial aid concerns. </p>

<p>Nope, I don’t feel attacked by your post. It was polite and reasonable, even in pointing out that I needed to read more carefully. And I did go back and read the whole thread more carefully. Perhaps there isn’t a single parental instance of endorsing here. </p>

<p>I still would rather see people steer their kids in other directions. </p>

<p>As far as household attitudes though, my experience isn’t in line with your theory. My concern here really doesn’t arise out of anxiety among my kids re the SAT or other testing. My kindergartner hasn’t taken it yet, but my other two don’t particularly mind standardized tests. Either one would have been okay with retaking if they hadn’t met their goals. Fortunately each one got to hit-it-and-quit-it. Or maybe I should say, fortunately D and S1 didn’t present me with a chance to test my convictions . . . in THIS case. :)</p>

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<p>notre dame, no one in our household encourages retakes for sport, nor has anyone encouraged retakes at all. Reporting something is not the same thing as endorsing it. I don’t think you are off the mark about the rude awakening for SOME kids–I’m simply saying that it does not apply to many other high-scorers who may want to retake the test. The scenario described by WIS 75 comports with my experience. Yours doesn’t. People are different. Is there a problem with that?</p>

<p>I agree about the importance of intrinsic achievement. What I wish for my own kid is that he find something where the desire for that very thing means more than anything else.</p>

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<p>Harriet, my theory actually depends on the experience of the PARENT as a standardized test taker, not the child. :)</p>

<p>I, for example, tend to downplay SAT angst because SATs and GREs and the NMSQT test–yes, back in the day it was a separate test!–were a breeze for me with no prep. If success in life could be attained by taking such a test, I’d be golden. :)</p>

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<p>Same here, Consolation. :slight_smile: I kind of enjoyed them all, and so did DH. </p>

<p>And I think there’s hope for S2, the kindergartner: When one of S1’s friends was over the other night, talking about how he couldn’t go do whatever the rest of them were planning because he would be taking the SATs that morning, S2 piped up from the next room, “Well, at least you’ll be doing something fun, too!” Although maybe he was being sarcastic. . . .</p>

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<p>No problem at all, Consolation! We all have our own opinions–</p>

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<p>If she didn’t prep for the 2340, then by all means retake. Whyever not? She can probably do better, and there’s always a chance of doing worse on a retake. The only reason scores tend to dip after retaking such a high score is because there are a lot of kids who worked realllly hard to get to that point, and so there’s little room for improvement for them.</p>

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<p>Keshira - your assumption is a rational one, but I doubt that there is anyway I could persuade my student to do a prep course. It is just her nature. I am happy for it - she is an unconventional thinker - but that same behavioral trait also makes for very challenging parenting. I pick my battles oh so carefully, if at all. Not having much parenting in my own youth (well, really none since I was 16 years on), I find the responses here helpful. </p>

<p>And I do want to make a couple of points - there is a difference between keeping SAT scores and the like in perspective - they should not be a be all and end all - but that doesn’t mean they are meaningless either, if used properly as a tool. By this mean is a student scoring 1700 or 1800 likely be able to do the same level of college work as a 2300 scorer? There are always a scant few exceptions, but by and large that kind of point difference is fairly meaningful, and to this extent, the scores should guide as to what kind of institution is appropriate in terms of challenge and curricula. I saw this in graduate school, where 70th percentile standardized test scorers admitted thought they were just as prepared (or so the school’s diversity camp led them to believe) as the 96th percentile scorers that reflected the mean of the school - they largely weren’t - and I felt they were never prepared to deal with the inevitable deep disappointment that would ensue - something that would not have happened if they went to a better matched school. </p>

<p>And as far as bragging rights go - I am not against bragging rights per se - we all have egos here - but let’s face it - if one want to go for bragging rights - pursue something meaningful rather than obtaining a score on a standardized test. The test itself accomplishes nothing - only helps get a foot in the door - but that door swings open based on a number of factors, and even then, once in any door, the most important thing by far is traversing the right hallways and ending up at the right kind of exit - a long, measured process that bears little relationship to the instant gratification offered by a good SAT score.</p>