Awesome! I’m glad to hear that 
Tuition listed by year:
http://www.aacp.org/resources/research/institutionalresearch/Pages/TuitionData.aspx
When you visit UK inquire about their policy on how long a major scholarship like the Patterson for NMF might be able to be used for. And also how many pre-requisites can be satisfied with AP credits.
We love the aacp site! Some programs require summer semesters, so I’m not sure if those costs are included in the data. Justing looking quickly those rates seem to be a standard year, not including summer. Also with Northeastern you have 2 co-ops during the school year and 1 in the summer - no tuition or fees are paid those semesters (you take classes during the summer) Basically if there is a program you like, look at the curriculum and figure out costs for yourself. We have no idea why there isn’t a simple break down like that available for each school: Here’s your sample curriculum - here’s what that would cost. Easy peasy. I get why thats isn’t done for undergrad programs in general - too much variety in what kids take, but PharmD? Although my niece is at UNC and says most of the students she knows Pre-Pharm (she was originally) are taking 3 years to complete pre-reqs (for in-state UNC they can afford too!)
@mommdc that is an incredibly good resource! I have been on the AACP site before, but had not come across that information. It really makes it much easier and more realistic to complete a cost matrix for each program. Even though they are both OOS programs, for example, it made Rhode Island seem far more affordable (relatively speaking) than UConn. In-state the difference between Pitt and Temple shrinks to very little, other than scholarship money at Temple being more readily available.
The pre-req time period for the schools that don’t have direct 0-6/2+4 admissions likely depends a lot on how much AP credit one can get at the school in question.
@AZcatsFan it is amazing when one looks at the in-state savings available in places like NC, OH and RI for their PharmD programs. Pennsylvania seems much friendlier to OOS applicants both at State related schools like Pitt and Temple as well as at pure state schools like Millersville and Slippery Rock (generally, not necessarily for pharm).
Thank you both again, the spreadsheet is rapidly being defined and expanded as is the list of questions to ask each school we visit!
Yes, it is very useful. In addition to the distance limitation the financial limitation also pointed us to stay instate, especially if we could get merit.
You definitely have to do research into the programs and costs. And if your kid can get some scholarships and that reduces the cost, even better.
We are also looking at what other career tracks would fit her interests and abilities. PharmD is still her top choice, but her other track that is developing as we research things together is biomedical engineering with an emphasis on drug delivery systems and toxicology, possibly combined with a JD. Her three greatest areas of interest academically are biochem, math and history/government and her ultimate career goal is likely to be more industry and/or regulatory oriented than purely clinical. Currently her tentative list of schools stands at:
Pitt
Shenandoah
Duquesne
Northeastern
U Kentucky
U Rhode Island
U Maryland
Most of the above, except Shenandoah, could fit either of the tracts she is interested in.
Recently added for the pharm engineering tract:
Drexel (also has an accelerated biomed eng BS/JD program)
NJIT
UConn and Temple have dropped off of her list along with Rutgers and Wilkes earlier either for financial or feel reasons.
Millersville still on the list as safety school.
Hmm, that didn’t come out quite right earlier, looking at it now. D is interested in clinical (large hospital) and industry, but not community pharm as much. She had some time at Pitt last year learning about them in a summer program along with other health professions and will be spending two class periods a day this year at our local University Hospital doing rotations through various clinical departments, hopefully getting a better fix on both pure pharm and the biomedical engineering side of it.
Her list right now hopefully has a few reaches, especially financial reaches unless she gets NMF status, matches and local safety, but is still very much a work in progress. Thanks to all again who have posted here, amazingly valuable and helpful insights and thoughts all (-:
I know a lot of people who enjoy clinical/hospital pharmacy, much more than community, but then again it is a preference. Whatever pharmacy school your daughter attends, make sure she can see ALL aspects of pharmacy. Whether it’s pharmaceutical business, pharmaceutical design, drug research, etc., no one says she has to be chained to a Walgreens for the rest of her life. So make sure you find a program where she can have access to that. According to what you’ve said, it seems to me that she would really enjoy more of the company side of pharmacy and not so much telling Margie what medicines interact with her antibiotics.
Indeed, that is one of the reasons she loves Pitt so much, the school is great, but the presence of all of those opportunities at UPMC really entices her. She has a strong interest in genetics and personalized medicine and both Pitt and Shenandoah have those as one of many points of emphasis in their programs. I work with both pharmacists and engineers and their professional associations in my work and see the real breadth of opportunities in both fields, which is part of what interests her in them as she has had some extra exposure to them through tagging along with me on occasion. I have suggested the hardcore business side of things like retail chain management (Duquesne excels in that area), but so far that is a turn off for her, as is an MBA dual degree, though things can change greatly once she gets to school. The industry side she is interested in is more working for big pharma, large clinical setting, or as noted earlier, possibly getting an MPA or JD and moving onto the healthcare and legal policy and compliance areas.
It is a very interesting journey and one she is learning more about each day, which is about all one can ask for. From my own viewpoint and insight into pharmacy policy and law, I can see a trend developing where pharmacists become more of a front line practitioner of primary healthcare. Some states have already moved strongly in that direction (California comes to mind), and even PA now has medication management, biological injectable and might be moving towards doing some simple lab testing (flu and strep kits) right there in the community pharmacy. One of the big issues is getting insurance companies to pay for these new services. There was a thought that patient counseling, a point of emphasis for most pharm curricula, would end up being a billable service, but that hasn’t really come to pass so it is now a financial loser for pharmacies, despite being very necessary and extremely helpful to patients.
@Skates76 - with that in mind she should def. take a close look at Northeastern. Her first co-op would begin the summer after her Soph year, then the next one Spring of P1, then Fall P2 with the last one driven completely by the student’s interest. (They said students usually do a community co-op that first summer. She wouldn’t be plugged into a slot, rather works with her co-op advisor and decides what co-ops she is interested in applying to. My son loved the balance of “academic & career” via this program. Also if she should change majors co-ops are still there.
@AZcatsFan Northeastern has always ben on the list and when I mentioned the Co-ops to her, D just looked at me like I was from another planet not to know that NU is known for their Co-op experiences. Cost is the biggest issue with NU, even with a large merit award it might not be affordable. Luckily we have some family near Boston, so we will be staying with them when we make our visit in June, and if she ends up at NU she will have them close by. (-:
Updating the current list and looking for any recommendations to add any more schools that fit DD’s gently evolving criteria for undergrad/grad school. Rather than refer anyone back to the first post, I will reset the stage here:
DD stats: SAT - 2250 (PSAT - 227 in PA, hopeful for NMF status), M+CR - 1520, M being her highest at 780. Unweighted GPA 3.97, weighted grade average around 107.5, very good central PA HS, current class rank 1 of 290, though assume top 3-4 as there is a very competitive top group at her school. 3 AP courses as a sophomore last year, 4 AP courses this year, 3-4 more as a senior next year plus an internship program at PSU Hershey Medical Center, depending on scheduling (all 5’s from last year’s AP tests).
Good EC’s, mostly school based academic clubs and honor societies, decent amount of regular volunteer work at the community library, lots of community based volunteering and some leadership through her church youth group, rides horses and works at a stable a few days per week to help pay for that.
Interests in a major are Pharmacy and Biomedical Engineering.
Future plans, this is the evolving part, PharmD school or PhD/Masters level grad school in biomed or pharmaceutics, or Med School, or, yes, Law School. As a side note I am an attorney with a science, healthcare background before going back to law school, hence DD is familiar with that track and the value of taking a technical degree, and possibly some related work experience into Law School if she goes that way.
DD is wonderfully practical about not taking on much or any debt and understands that our family won’t get any need based aid, and can contribute, as a practical limitation, about $10-12K per year max from parental income sources.
With lots of great suggestions here and research initially based only on the PharmD track we came up with a list noted in previous posts. Looking more deeply into Biomed and dual major/accelerated grad/prof degree programs, here is the current list (majors offered, interested in = B - biomed, P - Pharm, BP - both):
Safeties:
Millersville University, possibly California University of PA - good state schools with strong STEM programs.
Visited, but crossed off the list: PSU, Rutgers, Shippensburg (safety), and Wilkes.Crossed off for financial reasons, UConn and North Carolina, unlikely to get enough aid OOS to make them tenable, Temple crossed off for safety reasons.
Visited and liked:
PItt (DD attended a month long Health Sciences program there last summer) - BP
Shenandoah -P
Duquesne - P (will be visiting Pitt and Duquesne again this summer)
Planned or planning visits:
U of Kentucky - P
West Virginia U. - BP
U of Cincinnati - BP
Northeastern - BP (financial reach)
U of Rhode Island - P
NJIT - B
Drexel - B (also has an accelerated Biomed/JD)
Lehigh - B
U of Maryland - BP
NC State - B
DD is open minded about all kinds of campus settings since this list is all about seeing the schools and getting a feel for what she likes, though she is conscious of safety. She is not a party person and very likely not interested in Greek Life, but understands that even schools with those reps and aspects offer places and groups for people that would fit her well, or at least she is willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Geographically she is comfortable with about an 8 hour drive radius from home, so all Northeast, Ohio/Kentucky Valley, Mid-Atlantic down to the Carolinas.
Obviously the list is strongly tilted towards schools with reputations or published programs for significant merit based aid, including NMF status scholarships, that fit her stats and bio.
So, anyone with a fresh set of eyes that haven’t gotten completely tired out yet reading this, lol, have suggestions for schools to consider that might be a fit? Thank you (-:
If you have Cincinnati on the list maybe add Toledo and OSU?
Also Johns Hopkins for biomed engineering. Run the net price calculator and see what you get.
@mommdc We have talked over OSU and will do a drive-by on the way back from the WVa/Kentucky/Cinn visit in a few weeks, though I suspect it will fall into the same category as Rutgers and PSU for her as simply being too big, as might some other schools on the list once we see them. So far the Big 10 schools have just had that feeling that has appealed to her or I, but it certainly is a very good school. Toledo is one that I tossed her way and she just didn’t seem interested, same thing with University of Delaware. I’m not sure why they turned her off and that may change.
One of her cousins on DW’s side of the family is a freshman at JHU this year, had incredible stats from a prominent Boston area HS and wasn’t offered much in the way of merit there, though fortunately he didn’t need it since his grandparents to whom we are not related except by marriage were willing to pay full ride to any school he chose. We may take a visit there when we hit UMD though, possibly as a financial reach. Thanks as always!
what about Case Western Reserve University? They have a reputation for giving out a lot of merit aid. I know they have strong engineering, don’t know about pharmacy. We live in the area and really liked tour and campus. Despite being an urban school, University Circle is a great, vibrant area that is getting more and more gentrified (meaning that students probably need to be aware of their surroundings and take advantage of escorts/rides at night if they are alone but not a particularly unsafe area compared to many urban colleges).
@momofzag CWR is a truly wonderful suggestion. Though I have spent much of my life in eastern PA and a bit in NY, I remember well the wonderful reputation Case had all the way back in my days as an undergrad at Thiel College, and yes, their engineering programs are outstanding. I will definitely pass that one along to DD. Thanks so very much!
@Skates76 CWRU might be tough to get to $10-12K/year though if you don’t qualify for any need based aid…you will have to check into that.
D is actually looking for reaches more than anything at this point, and has been off researching CWR already tonight. If it doesn’t look financially workable she is usually very willing to move onto the next possibility.
One other negative with CWR is the weather as I recall being a bit further from Lake Erie and later, Ontario and what those winters were like, not that south central PA is bright and sunny then either. She has a fairly benign condition that manifests in her hands and feet getting cold rather quickly, but she is a Northeast girl at heart. I have been trying to nudge her to look a bit farther south for schools, hence why Rochester where I am a grad alum, and Buffalo have not made the list.
She is thinking of her big reach possibly being Georgia Tech as their top scholarships are wonderful but highly competitive. Her eyes seem to shine a bit more when that school is mentioned, and it is definitely warmer climes, so we shall see. Anyone who can give advice on Ga Tech and possibly U of South Carolina would be greatly appreciated (-: