Anyone compared & contrasted Pomona vs Williams?

College Search & Selection
21

<p>I think that if you really want to understand the culture of any of the top LACs, you have to go back and look at their histories. IMO, the character of all of the schools were solidly entrenched 50 years ago and really haven't changed much. The only top LAC that has really made an abrupt change of course in the last few decades has been Amherst.</p>

<p>In particular, I think LACs are shaped by their location and whether they were male institutions, female institutions, or co-ed institutions.</p>

<p>For example, Williams and Amherst both have a "New England prep school" heritage. Swarthmore is more a product of its mid-Atlantic Friends School feeders. Pomona a product of the SoCal suburban public and private schools.</p>

<p>Likewise, you can see the gender traditions clearly in the makeup of the board of directors of each school and the composition of the boards shapes every aspect of the schools' traditions, both today and dating back decades. For example, you would not see the Williams-style commitment of resources to athletics at Pomona or Swarthmore because of the heavy female representation on the boards of those two tradtionally-coed schools.</p>

22

<p>One point that I would want to stress about Williams is that they have a ton of money and although yes, sports are heavily financed, so are the arts, extensively -- witness the museums, the new performing arts center, weekend career workshops etc. Focus on one area doesn't preclude support for another. </p>

<p>A few years back Williams conducted a study on the impact of athletics on campus culture. They discovered that some professors and some students thought that sports were watering down the academic focus and dominating the social scene. Being Williams they published the report and then reacted, both to the reality and the perception. For example, they started actively recruiting kids with arts backgrounds, they changed their athletic tip system. I agree that Nike camp quote is facetious and tiresome. Here's another from Ralph Bradburd, professor of economics:" I'd like to think that at Williams we want sports for our students, not students for our sports."</p>

<p>Sports and physical activities do pervade the culture at Williams. My son has never been much of a team athlete, although many of his highschool friends were, and this aspect of Williams was a concern to him. As it turned out, the emphasis on physical wellbeing and outdoors activity has been a real plus.. He's healthier and more active than ever and has learned a lot of new physical skills that will stand him in good stead later in life -- like squash, tennis, diving, not to mention all sorts of winter sports.</p>

<p>As far as casual (as opposed to academic) music at Williams, it's definitely confined to campus, but it's serious, well funded and supported. Among my son's close friends who are musicians one is an athlete, one is a science major, one is involved in campus government, so for sure, it's common to see overlap between music and other activities. Williams kids are multifaceted. The college encourages them to participate in non-academic activities, funds them, supports them and recruits them.</p>

<p>I love reading about and by Kurt Varnedoe. He was one of my son's idols. If you can find it read the New Yorker article written in his memory by Adam Gopnik.</p>

23

<p>Although i somewhat agree with interesteddad, it should be known that Pomona has rought half of its students from out of state, and the other Claremont schools have large percentages of students from out of state, too. I don't know if this is a recent development or not.</p>

24

<p>All of these schools cater to a national customer base today. But, I was talking more about the formative years for these schools -- first half of the 20th century for Swarthmore and Pomona, going back further for Williams.</p>

<p>Each school was shaped by its history in a way that makes it what it is today. For example, Williams has always had a decidedly New England and Westchester County boys prep school customer base. That shaped the school in ways that are different from the co-ed Sidwell Friends and Germantown Friends (and, to some extent, NYC public school) traditional customer base of Swarthmore. Which, in turn, is very different than the sunbelt boomtown suburban character of the SoCal environment where Pomona planted its roots.</p>

<p>What I'm saying is that the persona of these, and other, schools didn't grow in a vacuum. It is easy to see the historical precedents.</p>

25

<p>here are some climate facts for locations near each school.</p>

<p>Pomona, Ca/Albany, NY
annual rainfall 16/36
sunny days 143/71
January temp(F) 54/21
Ozone index 143/89 (100 is average)</p>

<p>certainly no surprises here....trade-off on the extra 33 degrees with lots of California sun and air pollution, but sounds like ozone issues are primarily a summer thing....makes sense.</p>

26

<p><<athletics is="" one="" williams="" defining="" institutional="" characteristics.="" among="" the="" top="" handful="" of="" liberal="" arts="" colleges,="" it="" most="" characteristics="" --="" thing="" that="" makes="" different="" from="" pomona,="" swarthmore,="" amherst,="" carleton,="" etc.="">></athletics></p>

<p>You don't need an advanced degree to recognize the statement above is pretty stupid. Generalizations like "Williams is all about athletics" are so simple that they serve no useful purpose. You could claim "America is all about apple pie" but that really doesn't tell you much about the country. With respect to Williams, sure we love sports, but we're a lot more complicated than that.</p>

<p>I suppose the moral of my message is this: If you don't have anything to contribute besides surface generalizations, don't post. The smartest man in the room knows when he has nothing to add.</p>

<p>Ephtastic
Williams '07</p>

27

<p>Ephtastic, how preppy is the student body? How large are your class sizes?</p>

28

<p>Would someone who is not super athletic feel out of place at Williams? I'm not sure I would fit in athletically at the college, but the extensive music program there interests me. I just don't want to be happy with one area but be miserable with the general sports atmosphere.</p>

29

<p>Just to end the whole sports issue, Williams has Pomona beat, in quality, success, and funding. Almost everyone plays some sport, but don't think that everyone plays varsity or intercollegiate. There are quite a bit of club sport which huge following. The ultimate team would be a varsity if varsity ultimate were to exist. But no, you will not be out of place if you're not athletic, but just don't expect to sit down, if I'm not mistaken, there is a "phsyical activity" sort of requirement.</p>

<p>But that is nothing big, they had this requirement when my mom went to college. At Stanford, my mom did weight lifting so she could look at the guys, LOL.</p>

<p>And intellectually, I'd think twice about saying Pomona has an edge over Williams academically. Also, to the comment that there is nothing in music outside of summer, you must not be looking. Williams is in the Berkshires, classic music and outdoor concert heaven, and there are loads of events and programs during the the school year, even the winter...there is a different Tanglewood group at Tannery Pond every Sunday at my school, gets on my nerves sometimes with the traffic. But the issues is, with being in Berkshire county, those who don't want to seek out what the mecca of arts and music has to offer are generally the ones complaining...</p>

<p>FYI, this is coming from a guy who grew up in Oakland, CA.</p>

30

<p>I will be attending Williams in the fall as a freshman. During my visit in April, never once did I get the impression that the school was overly athletics based. Most students participate in athletics but a nearly half do not. In the past, Williams used to aggressively recruit athletic high school seniors. In a process know as "Tipping", they granted admission to athletes who would have been denied admission if they were not athletes. As of recent, Williams has reduced the number of those "tipped" due to an increasing number of strong applicants and the general consensus among student body and administration.</p>

31

<p>Thanks a lot. I feel that I can now strongly consider Williams as a potential college for me.</p>

32

<p>Just wanted to add in viewing some of the posts above-
Pomona is definitely not a SoCal dominated student body. About 1/3 are from California and from all over the state. A large number of students are from the N/E and N/W. there is also a great number of foreign students. </p>

<p>Both are excellent schools academically, I don't think you could pick one over the other in that regard, unless it pertains to some specific major. </p>

<p>Sports are important at both schools IMO, but I think Pomona has the edge, given the weather alone. Don't think you'll be sitting poolside in October or November in Williams, as you might well at Pomona. I also think in varsity sports Pomona plays in a much "tougher" conference. The intramural programs at both schools are well represented IMO. I also think the facilities at pomona are extradionary and rival many D-1 sports programs, plus you have a duplication of facilities given the other 4 schools adjacant to Pomona (more about that below)</p>

<p>Location is a huge factor. The weather in Claremont can't be beat during the school year, but you may prefer the "seasons" that Williams will provide. At Pomona, You're also about 45 minutes in one direction from the mountains (skiing, hiking, etc.) and 45 minutes the otherway to the beach. In about the same time you can be in Los Angeles, Disneyland, Hollywood, Malibu etc. etc. See a major concert, the Lakers, Angels, Dodgers or SC or UCLA football. In a little over an hour, you can hit San Diego. However, you may well like and prefer the isolation that Williams provides (just don't try to use your cell phone, you rarely get reception).</p>

<p>One critical difference, all else aside, is that Pomona and Williams are relatively similar in size, but immediately adjacant to Pomona and, in essence, forming one (5000 student) campus you have the 4 other schools that form the Claremont consortium. You can take classes at all 5 schools, eat in the 11 dining halls of the 5 schools, attend events/parties put on by 5 schools. The schools form two separate sports programs and so you have this myriad of activity, facilities and the diversity and other opportunites of access to 5 schools if you choose. This is simply not present at Williams.</p>

<p>To bottomline generalize and "stereotype", IMO you'll get a little more laid back California experience at Pomona and a more typically east coast traditional feel at Williams.</p>

33

<p>At williams, can you cross register at any other schools? This may be a factor for some people, considering that one can take up to a third of ones classes at the other claremones, meaning if one goes to say Pomona, one can take much more difficult and broad science classes at Harvey Mudd if one wishes. Can this be done at Williams with any other school?</p>

34

<p>I think Wiliams has an arrangement with Columbia (??) perhaps for an engineering degree (a few years at Williams, finished at the other engineering school), but probably nothing like the Pomona/Claremont 5 college consortium situation.</p>

<p>Williams also has a popular program at Oxford. Does Pomona have such an option?</p>

35

<p>Sure, Williams has such a program with Dartmouth, Middlebury, and perhaps another 10 schools. They have a 5 year engineering program with Columbia. I'm not sure how many actually avail themselves of it.....they tend to want to stay on campus, so it seems.</p>

36

<p>Williams, I don't see as typical, it is not your classic brick New England campus. With their $1.2 billion endowment, 2nd largest for an LAC, they havebeen able to create an over the top campus which is more of a cross between Brown and Amherst campus than a typical northeast atmosphere like Colby or Dartmouth. </p>

<p>Also, I prefer the change of scenery with the seasons, snow covered college campuses really add a sense of community wherever I go. Everyone isn't flocking to some other campus, city, or club. What's known as the winter slump at most school in this region is what brings communities together, where those real friendships are made, and when discoveries about yourself and your surroundings are made.</p>

<p>This may sound glossy, but it's my first person experience. I was born and raised at Stanford, then Oakland. In 2001 moved to Boston, and now attend a boarding school one hour south of Williams. I can tell the big difference between Claremont Colleges/Stanford and Williams is that the former are metropolises of opportunity and resources. So much, basking under the Califronia sun, that you wont even explore half of it in your four years. The latter is one the finest LACs nestled in the hills of New England. This school is undermined by the concept of community, your resource here is the people surrounding you, arguably the best mix of intellects, athlete, scholars you can put together in a school of 1,900, during which you will enjoy one of the most personalized (and pampered, look at those palaces) educations to be found.</p>

<p>I'd say, there a wealth of more resources at Pomona, but it all comes down to the atmosphere and experience you're looking for.</p>

37

<p>About the college exchanges with Williams, that is one of their specialties, their apart of the twelve college exchange, where from one school you can study at any one of the other 11 for a year with your host school's financial aid and without all the red tape you'll see in most college transfers. The Twelve College Exchange consist of:</p>

<p>Amherst
Bowdoin
Connecticut College
Dartmouth
Mount Holyoke
Smith College
Trinty College
Vassar
Wesleyan
Wellesley
Wheaton
Williams</p>

<p>Those who can get a spot do take advantage of it, but they'll only let about 400 students between the twelve schools use the program each year.</p>

<p>Aside from that is their overseas programs with Oxford University and their exstensive study abroad program.</p>

38

<p>Creative, I have to say I agree with Driver. Once the kids get on the Williams campus, they want to stay and it's fairly uncommon to take advantage of the 12 college exchange. </p>

<p>Study abroad is another thing altogether, though, and a semester or year in another country is encouraged. Williams own program at Oxford is only one of many programs that Williams kids have access to all over the world.</p>

<p>I think the insular quality of Williams is its major point of differentiation from Pomona, Amherst or to a certain extent Swarthmore. For some, this is a big plus. For others a negative. For my son even though he "escapes" to New York or other outposts of the real world every now and then, he's always happy and grateful to return to the purple bubble. The insularity, the intensity of an isolated but lively community, the sense of an intellectual retreat surrounded by natural profound beauty, the whole ivory tower aspect of the campus is what makes Williams Williams. It's not for everyone, but those who love it feel privileged to be part of it.</p>

39

<p>There 22 at Williams using the exchange, particularly, the level is low because only 400 can use the program a year and the bulk are trying to transfer to Wellesley. But really , on average, only 30 kid per a school CAN utilize it at once, that's why it may seem uncommon.</p>

40

<p>Pomona also offers a program at Oxford along with a meriad of other locations. Both study abroad prgrams are probably comparable in scope and quality.</p>

<p>Pomona's cross-enrollment however does not involve transfering schools, it involves walking an extra 5min to class.</p>

<p>If we're going to start throwing out endowment numbers, Pomona has the largest endowment per capita of any school in the nation. It has been put to excellent use by recently renovating every one of the academic buildings as well as the construciton of several new ones. Williams campus is undeniablity pretty in a new englandy foresty way, but Pomona arcitecture and landscaping are just as beautiful (think stanford scale small...with less euciliptis (sp?) trees).</p>

<p>And also, there is no way to say that Williams is hands down better at sports then Pomona. Williams competes in an all-academic conference, while Pomona most certainly does not. The only head to head competition of late that I know about has been cross country and tennis, which I will submit went in Williams favor (even though a Pomona runner took 3rd in the nation).</p>

<p>As for the sense of community, it's what happens when you're trapped 45min from a supermarket. give me sun or give me death.</p>

<p>Finally, the choice regarding Williams and Pomona will ultimately come down to a visit. I didn't even apply to Williams after a visit, I absolutely loved Pomona. Different strokes for different folks.</p>