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I agree with what abasket said about this. Out in the working world your raises and promotions depend on what you accomplish, and what you accomplish depends on the assistance of others. Being able to tactfully motivate others is a skill much more important to her future then a great writeup she does alone to an experiment she won't even remember in a year. You might want to gently explain this to your daughter
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<p>I agree. She has quite a bit of leadership experience in areas like scouts and community service so has developed some of those skills. I think at this stage she is nervous about grades as she knows college is different from HS - so the group for lab unnerved her a bit. She has had both good and bad 'group project' experiences in the past. The bad usually came from being partnered with people who did not care about grades while the good was with people who cared as much as she did. Am I being too optimistic in thinking that if they are in college they will care about the grades? But yes I am hoping she will develop those skills. The 'tactfully' part will take some working on.</p>
<p>I don't think you are being too optimistic. In high school, students are immature and some (gasp) don't care about their own grades- certainly not the grades of others. In college, most/all students really care, otherwise why be there? Especially in classes like bio and chem. If you were a slacker student that just wanted to party, you would pick a major that didn't involve those classes, that's for sure!</p>
<p>Large lecture type classes - especially in the sciences - are usually the intro classes - that many students are required to take at some point - many don't have recitation groups - but..... the lab piece should not be a problem - even if assigned to a lab group - all students are required to pass in their own lab reports and are graded such - alot of science courses actually have the lecture and labs seperate - as completely seperate classes/grades - not all students are required to take the lab piece - depends on their major.</p>
<p>If your gal has questions about either part of the class - most profs have office hours to which she can go to for assistance. Many kids do utilize study groups - depends on the students strength in the particular class.</p>
<p>It is a big adjustment from small classes to large lecture halls - but she should be ok if she is a good student - and the large classes will pass - the further on she goes :) Something to look forward to for her LOL</p>
<p>I believe (and again, don't quote me on this, I am picking up these tidbits of info on a piecemeal basis) that in the science labs, a lot of the grade is still based on tests and quizzes anyway. I do know that S had to write lab reports, just didn't seem as though there were as many to write as when he was taking AP science (when there were lab reports everytime you turned around).</p>
<p>When I taught college lab classes, work was always done in groups, and yes that can be a pain if your partner is a goof-off, but I always graded the labs on the basis of the lab report, and what I observed during the lab session. I knew who was prepared and who was free-riding.</p>
<p>The key is to know why the experiment didn't work (they never do) and then write a good lab report.</p>
<p>Yes, doubleplay is correct, labs are generally accompanied by quizzes, both before and after, to ascertain who read the required background material and who worked up a flow-chart and written protocol to get through the lab efficiently.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about the grade aspect of the group work.</p>
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I thought a smaller school might be better for my D. But the HS she went to (a state math & Science residential school) was so small and the powers that be were in the kids business all the time (to a rather creepy degree) that she wanted the opposite for college.
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<p>Often our kids who attend small schools seem to forget that a small 1500 - 4000 person college still has more people than their high school so these schools are actually "large" compared to their high school experience.</p>
<p>I agree with the others that intro science classes are large even at small schools as some are viewed as weed out courses. The key is for your D to stay on top of things and if she has problems don't be afraid to ask for help (remember no one gives you extra credit for suffering or having a good tale of woe).</p>
<p>I'm a little surprised there is lab but no discussion class. I double-checked and my large state U had both for all the intro science classes with labs.
I would think it would be needed to discuss exam and lab report results etc.</p>
<p>If there are enough TA-staffed office hours and help sessions, a formal discussion class may be unnecessary.</p>
<p>Sitting in a discussion section listening to the instructor answer somebody else's question about a topic you already understand, while realizing that there isn't going to be time for the instructor to get around to the entirely different topic where you need clarification, is neither efficient nor satisfying.</p>
<p>My son had his first experience today with large classes. He transfered from a "medium" sized school (about 5,000) to a large state U. His impression after first day was that you must get to class at least 20 min early or you have to sit on the floor. Luckily since he wasn't sure where the classes were, he allowed ample time and snagged a seat. Hope lots of students drop so that everyone can sit!</p>
<p>Large classes are the norm for intro bio and chem. This is even true for elite LAC's. These are usual pre-med classes, and if your D is pre-med, expect this also for physics and organic chem.</p>
<p>My son has been very lucky at Drew that he didn't even have an Intro class over 35-50. I thought Intro to Psychology would of been large, because at Wheaton, almost the same size, it was 100. But they had a few at Drew and they were small. Even his lab, but this year he has a bio lab and I'll see how big it is.
He really wanted smaller classes because large lecture halls were too hard for him to concentrate, he likes the interaction of talking and answering questions, etc. I think by junior year, he might not mind a larger class, but for now, that's one of his favorite things about Drew.</p>
<p>As a professor I can state that the worst classes are those with an enrollemnt that is too small (usually < 6), unless it's a tutorial that has been especially designed this way. When a tiny class is missing students it feels like a funeral. Counterintuitively, it's also easier to teach large classes. It's easier to get a large group to laugh at your jokes than a small one. (The basis of group-think.)</p>
<p>I get the idea from S that many times the "discussion" classes are cancelled anyway, unless there is something important coming up, or something important to go over after the fact.</p>
<p>I just checked my son's roster for this year. His bio class is 50 but the lab is that cut in half, they split them up.
He actually didn't like a class that some students dropped, that ended up with 10...a little too much attention : ) but he also never missed a class so "maybe" the extra attention helped.</p>
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He transfered from a "medium" sized school (about 5,000) to a large state U. His impression after first day was that you must get to class at least 20 min early or you have to sit on the floor.
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Tell him this only lasts a week or two. It ends when the prof utters the magic words "sorry, I can't add anyone else for this class". What you have right now are all the people on the waitlist showing up in case they get in, and people not even on the waitlist showing up hoping they'll get in. In my experience they don't schedule classes in rooms that can't seat all the enrolled students ;)</p>
<p>My D is at a large state flagship and some classes are huge, in her chem class the curve included 1400 students in two lectures. My D still sat in the front row and as a frosh would even raise her hand to ask questions :eek: Anyway, at the two UCs we've experienced, the curve can be harsh...one D had a chem class where a 97 was the lowest A on one class, yet in another chem class a 44 garnered an A- fine, but how did the 44% knowledge level help kids in the next course in the series.</p>
<p>The biggest thing about huge classes is go, every time you can, attend any discussion sessions and connect with your TA and look for prof's who speak understandable English.</p>
<p>Do not be afraid to make the class small for you, sit in front, talk to the prof after (if you have valid reasons, not just to be a keener); go to office hours, get to know the TA, make it your class.</p>
<p>Many science depts. will put old exam copies in the library. They could not be checked out but they could be photocopied. My study group used them to prepare for exams. Pleasant surprise to find many of the same questions show up semester after semester.</p>
<p>I had forgotten about the dreaded curve in Chemistry.</p>
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Large lecture type classes - especially in the sciences - are usually the intro classes - that many students are required to take at some point - many don't have recitation groups - but..... the lab piece should not be a problem - even if assigned to a lab group - all students are required to pass in their own lab reports and are graded such
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She found out not only are the lab reports 'group' projects but the group actually has to 'peer critique' and assign points as to the input of each partner. Someone not partcipating at all can potentially fail the class based on the points. Not sure what I think of that. Is that common? They do make a point of the 'group' being an important part of them learning to work with others which I admit is a valid point. But not sure about the whole peer critique thing.</p>