Anyone have luck appealing financial aid or merit money?

You are facing very large bills bc of the belief that your high stat kids require certain schools. High stat kids are found everywhere and go on to high levels of success from their lower ranked schools. A large percentage of middle class parents cannot afford to pay 1/3+ of their annual income for college. Those high performing kids attend affordable schools bc those are the only schools where parents can afford to pay the bills without destroying their families’ financial stability.

My ds is a sr at Alabama (and attended for free). He was not an avg atudent with avg stats. (He graduated from high school having completed numerous 300 level math and physics courses.) He has had great professors and educational opportunities (his scholarships paid for grad level courses as an UG.) He is surrounded by equally high achieving friends who are equally motivated to succeed. The idea that bc he attended a lower ranked school that he had to wallow in educational mediocrity surrounded by dullards is just plain false.

One of his close friends at Bama, a very accomplished young woman, has been accepted to 5 MD/PhD programs including Harvard’s. Our ds has been accepted into some of the top physics grad programs in the country. His entire group of friends has had equally outstanding results in their various pursuits whether that is going directly into industry or grad school. (And all of them attended on some sort scholarship that at least covered full tuition. Low cost for high outcome.)

@Mom2aphysicsgeek …thank you. That is helpful. Congrats on your son’s success!

@lookingforward … my daughter has had a lifelong fascination with the brain and spent most of her high school years volunteering with autistic kids. She’s fascinated that the brain is the most powerful organ but is the only one that cannot heal and repair itself. She is flexible…could end up in any number of fields related to cognitive studies…I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a goal. My other girl has no idea what she wants to study. I have both and it feels a bit easier investing in the one with some focus…but I know they’ll both be fine. :slight_smile:

OP- BU better than Rochester for neuro?

I think your kids have some fantastic options in hand. If your D really disliked Tulane then fine- take it off the list, but Fordham is a terrific (and very undervalued IMHO) school. And Rochester is outstanding. I honestly would take BU off the list and wouldn’t even bother with an appeal.

I’m not sure I follow the narrative though- maybe you can post a Twin One and Twin Two update so we can see who got into which school and wants to study what and the net costs and what you can afford? I think I’ve muddled the storyline here.

But bottom line- don’t expect a negotiation to yield more than $1500 here or there. And particularly Wash U- I’ve not heard of a negotiation there being successful.

On the subject of your finances- I think a phone call to your H’s HR rep at work is in order (the question will likely get forwarded up the chain to a VP of Comp). Make sure that you are treating taxable compensation correctly (i.e. in the year that it’s imputed to you) and not ahead of schedule. There are vesting schedules and if your H’s employer is a public company it will be easy to identify the value of any assets he held on whichever day you filed FAFSA (share price times number of shares). Someone in the comp and benefits group at work can help with this.

You probably are higher income than the true ‘donut’ families. At the end of the day you have to decide what you are comfortable paying and assess the risks in your husbands future earnings. Definitely reach out to schools for clarification regarding assets versus income. Perhaps there is some more money to be had. But there is a difference between ‘can’t pay’ and ‘don’t want to pay’ or ‘uncomfortable paying’ and schools are don’t really care about the latter two. The system does seem as if it overcharges full pay families to fund financial aid. But until something changes, that’s what we are stuck with. That being said, if your D had a bad experience at Tulane, certainly take that off the list. A fine school for some, but not for everyone. I think schools assume or expect that families pay tuition from a combination of income, savings and sometimes loans, just like other big purchases like homes and cars and renovations., as opposed to only from income. And that’s probably the right way for them to look at it. When they see a high income family, they expect/assume the college fund savings to have started prior to senior year.

These are all great research universities.

Did the neuroscience major apply to Pitt?

She should have great opportunities at U Rochester or Ohio State if she doesn’t want to go to Tulane.

Agree that if your dau didnt like Tulane for whatever reason ( similar thing happened with the professors not being available when older s toured Dartmouth, and he took it off the list) then take Tulane off your list. Unless it’s the most affordable school. Then reconsider. BTW BU is definitely not better than Tulane, but no matter. And Tulane is aware they need to improve their food and are building a new dining hall.

You can ask for professional judgment, especially for the schools that use the PROFILE, but be prepared to have a compelling reason to justify the need for additional money. They may consider your younger kid’s catholic school, but that is a choice, not a right. If you have had significant financial setbacks (not talking about yesterday’s 700+ point drop- that was ugly), are caring for an elderly family member, or some such thing that isn’t reflected on your FA forms, then you can ask. Sometimes… SOMETIMES a school will consider their offer based on what a peer institution (their definition, not yours) offered, but you should be prepared to say yes if they give any additional aid. And if one of your twins wants med school, best to save your $ now and go with what is affordable. Understand that’s not what you want to hear, but it is the soundest decision. We all want to give our kids what they want, but if its unaffordable, its a tough lesson to learn.

As @wisteria100 said, their definition of need and yours are likely to differ.

@blosssom …You are so right! This is super muddled. With two I have been dropping names and not being specific. You are kind to even try to decipher! Twin 1 is pretty set…she got into Northeastern honors with $20k, as well as their explore program, which is perfect for a kid who doesn’t quite know what they want to be when they grow up (like most of us!) She also got $32k at Fordham, $20k at Syracuse, $24k at Emerson (majors too limited), $17k at Missouri and UMass Amherst is her “in state” option. She is also waiting on Brown and Cornell but we are positive we’ll get nothing there and like the offering at Northeastern for her. She might wish to visit Fordham as well, but the end cost is the same.

Twin 2 is the tough one. She got into Wash U, Emory, and BU all with no money, and then got $30k at Tulane, and $15k at OSU and UofR. That amount at UofR is still almost $60k which is why we initially dismissed it. Great school. My mother graduated from Eastman…we know it well but she wasn’t sure about a few things there so with other good options, we moved on. She was denied from Northwestern and is still waiting Wake, GW and Penn (will likely be denied), and could get money at those first two.

In the end, or at the beginning rather, I was just trying to see if there was any way a school might negotiate to make it a little more affordable given twins and a son entering high school…but it does seem that a small award won’t make a big difference. If they gave us $1,500, would it change our minds? Not really. Unless there is some way to adjust half my husband’s “total wages, tips, etc.” to put some in assets, I think I have my answer. Not much of a shot.

As far as BU…she was accepted to the honors college there and living just an hour away has friends there AND it looks like her sister will be in Boston. I think that is more of a draw than any particular undergrad program. Twins are complicated. :slight_smile:

THANK YOU for asking, reading and offering your opinion. We are prepared to pay/borrow 30-40 per kid, but 70 is not an option!

@twinmom71 Here are the stats for the first three students admitted and attending to URI this year in the decision thread.

Student #1 3.6UW GPA 1320 SAT - Nursing
Student #2 3.76UW GPA 1520 SAT - Pharmacy
Student #3 3.92 UW GPA, 4.40 WGPA, 1540 SAT, SAT sub (Korean 800, Japanese 710, Math 2 800), National Merit Semi Finalist, Finalist pending - IEP German Industrial Engineering

Now we live in a wealthier town in RI with a large number of doctors and most of the ones that we know attended their state flagship, Kansas, Mass, RI, Kentucky. Whatever. Because they found it prudent to save money for med school and because no one cares where you went for undergrad anyway. We also do know doctors who had trust funds and choose places like Bowdoin. There are kids in all of these flagships who receive top honors and prestigious awards. There are thousands and thousands of unis in the US. These flagships are coming in the top 200 for the ranking and status obsessed. It will really make no difference for many majors but especially ones who face expensive post grad programs like premed. But again it is your money to spend and I understand that some people find college placement as an award.

Don’t look at how much $ the schools each gave her— look at the bottom line: what will it cost out of your pocket to send her to each of these schools. A $45k COA school with a $15k award is better than a $70K school with a $30K award.

Don’t discount the Fordham offer. Very solid school, some excellent programs, good reputation and career prospects

This is how I see it for twin 2:
BU- I would drop it because they will likely not make the school affordable.

WashU, Emory- you can ask for a FA reconsideration, but don’t count on it. It may or may not happen… it depends on the school. You also need to qualify for FA all 4 years… will you?

Tulane- affordable but not a fit school. I would visit one more time if possible and then decide.

Rochester- too expensive

OSU- great school, affordable, I assume honors program

Wake- don’t expect merit money, don’t expect enough FA. Merit is crazy crazy competitive.

GW- your D may get some merit. Will it be enough? You don’t know yet.

Penn- will likely not be affordable.

I see these two schools as realistic options: OSU, Tulane. I would tell twin 2 that the other schools are still on the table… if… and only if… the cost comes down to xxx amount of money per year. If that does not happen… she can choose between OSU and Tulane. These are outstanding schools where she will find brilliant students and lots of opportunities. Lots of high stats kids face these issues all the time.

OP- also make sure with Twin B she isn’t slicing the bologna too thin. You DON’T need to major in neuroscience as an undergrad if her ultimate goal is something neuro related. Different universities call it different things; what matters is the depth of study and the bench strength of the faculty in areas such as cog sci (might be in the pysch department), chemistry and biochemistry, applied math and statistics, biology and biostatistics. Kids gravitate towards “plug and play” majors- hence the current craze for highly specialized/narrowly targeted nomenclature. But neuro is many, many things- chemical, biological, behavioral, cellular, mathematical… and a huge university like OSU is going to have dozens of faculty members working on cool break- through stuff every day of the week.

And if the goal is med school-- I know young doctors now (classmates of my kids from HS) who majored in music, philosophy, classics, history in addition to the perennial bio/life sciences majors. And one is doing a residency in neuro at a top teaching hospital which has research affiliations with Walter Reed (brain injuries are huge in the military right now) and a bunch of other amazing institutions.

So think broadly at this stage of the game- how to get her a college education commensurate with her talents and aspirations without bankrupting your family. You’ve got another kid coming up in four years- do you really want to pack him off to community college every morning and explain that every nickel went to his sisters, you are underwater on the house because you borrowed, and he’s going to have to figure out how to finance URI on his own once he gets his AA?

I think you don’t.

OP- can you re-list the schools here with what the COA will be for you at each, including travel costs? That might help you decide if its worth asking for professional judgment, and help you and your dau make a reasoned choice.

I also agree that a second visit to Tulane is a good idea.

If you are fine borrowing $60,000-$80,000 a year…you are all set.

Many families don’t have that option because they wouldn’t qualify for loans for all,four years in that amount.

You will have $400,000 or so in repayment at the end…so look at payments of $4500-5000 a month…for at least ten years. And that sounds OK for you. Your twins are fortunate that this is the case.

Yes, having two in expensive private colleges at the same time will be costly…but it seems your family can sustain these costs.

If not…you would have sought lower cost schools.

So…look at the acceptances. I agree about forgetting about BU and Wash U. And one of my kids is a BU grad…and I like the school.

What about OSU?

@twinmom71 have you visited OSU? I know students in the honors program who declined offers at Ivy level schools to attend… and they are very happy.

@twinmom71 I have twins, identical boys, and have some overlap with your situation, and many differences too. First, in terms of financial aid appeals… We received some aid from Fordham, but not quite enough, so we appealed. We’re waiting to hear; my guess is they are seeing how the class develops, and then will hopefully redistribute a bit of the unclaimed aid to some “appealers.” We might do that with American as well.

Our twins applied to several of your girls’ “midlevel” schools (I suspect you regret using that term at this stage, but I understand the general shorthand). They are solid A- students with SATs hovering on either side of 1400. Solid ECs, solid volunteering, excellent essays and recs. Not outliers or the absolute cream (except to us, of course). They intend to go to the same school, and fortunately have received the same results so far, with one tiny difference. Here they are:

Fordham: In with a bit of aid, EA
Drexel: In with the most aid so far, EA
U Pittsburgh: In with almost no aid, but it’s the cheapest school of the batch
U Miami: One twin in, one WAITLISTED, what??? EA. Just accept or reject him. We didn’t understand that. They are so similar on paper. Good way to piss off a family. Whatever, moving on.
Northeastern: Into NUin. No aid, it seems.
BU: Guaranteed admission/transfer for Fall 2019. Bizarre. Probably off the table. Probably no aid.
BC: Waitlisted.
American: In with just tiny loans.
GW and NYU left to go. Not optimistic.

But the important thing is, they’re fine. They have some excellent options. It’s hard for people to feel sorry for situations like ours, when much of the world does not even go to college, or have never had a stock option, or can’t possibly think outside of a local community college or state school, all of which are filled with plenty of high-achieving, driven students. I sense that you are a nice person living in a similar bubble to me, just outside of Boston. Where you’ll go is indeed not who you’ll be, as Frank Bruni wrote so well (I highly recommend that book). My husband attended CUNY/Queens College for a grand total of $300 in the '70s and has been well and gainfully employed ever since. I went to a fancy liberal arts college (I’m from a poor family and had scholarships). It was fabulous and I don’t regret it, and I also don’t blame the school for my relative success or lack of it. It all has much more to do with hard work, seeing opportunities, good luck, and yes, some contacts. Prestige is not to be discounted, but it is one small item on the list. Your girls seem to be very hard workers, and smart, with a loving, intact family. They will be in good shape no matter where.

If successfully win an appeal, be sure you understand how your finances will work for all 4 yrs. Even with their initial packages, there can be changes for yrs 2-4.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2015/06/16/10-colleges-where-upperclassmen-get-less-financial-help
https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2015/04/01/watch-out-for-front-loaded-financial-aid-packages

Thank you all for your helpful comments…I have lots of good info to share with my girls! Very good points about reputation vs. reality, future debt and of course, the answers to my actual question…doesn’t look good for an appeal.

FYI for those who asked, we have not visited OSU but I know Columbus VERY well…lived there for 5 years and still work for a company based there. So it’s not off the table by any means. PS, she did NOT get in the honors program.

I want to add that I never intended for this to be a debate about why one school is better than another, state vs private, etc. etc. I didn’t even ask if it was smart to borrow $70k/year, which we wouldn’t and I’m sure couldn’t even do! I just wanted some people to weigh in on negotiating offers. I did not mean to offend anyone by labeling schools…that was my personal way of categorizing reach schools, likely matches, and safeties based MY KIDS and the unique list of schools they each applied to. I didn’t mean to say a school like Ohio State or Tulane is “midlevel” in the world…it was just a school we thought my girl would probably get into…not a reach, but not a safety. I’m sorry that was so miscommunicated. If I could delete this thread, I would!

@twinmom71 I sympathize with your predicament. We weighed prestige, academic fit, and cost last year for our very high stats daughter. We are full pay but not really able to afford full pay given a second kid’s college education to fund in a few years and impending retirements.

My impression is that its sometimes possible to move the needle fractionally for either merit or financial aid if there’s a competitive offer elsewhere that is equally or more highly ranked. But the amount is unlikely to be decisive. And I’m pretty sure that you can’t use a merit award to leverage financial aid. I believe negotiating happens within a category - financial/financial or merit/merit.

If this helps, I know a very academically impressive young woman who is now a senior at UMass, pre-med. She applied to the usual prestigious NE LACs and universities and was either denied or faced unaffordable options. While she initially was disappointed, by the time she was an entering sophomore, she felt that circumstances had pushed her into her best choice and didn’t regret a thing. She enjoyed the Honors Program and had challenging courses and had found her tribe. She was happy that she would have no debt going into med school.

Especially given the 5 colleges consortium, U Mass is not a bad outcome. For Twin 1, Northeastern or Fordham might also make sense financially and academically. For Twin 2, U Mass sounds like the best option if she wants to pursue neuro/premed. IIRC, Amherst College has good offerings in Neuro and she might be able to take some classes there.

Best of luck in your decision making.