<p>This is my first post and my first child that I am sending off to college (good chance that it will be Duke) .
I just read Charlotte Simmons and I have to say that I was concerned and rather disgusted at the total disregard for women, good ol' boys, drinking and sex. I'm by no means a prude and rather enjoyed my college years. However, this book was rather disturbing.<br>
So, my question is.....How realistic was the book? Specifically, how close to the book is the Duke environment (which unofficially the book was based on) or to any college campus these days?
Thanks</p>
<p>Both D and I read the book the summer before she began college. I found parts of it very true to college life - based on language heard from my own children (not particularly thrilled with that), overheard on campus and in the media, Wolfe's description of the generational differences in the use of the "f bomb" is quite accurate. I think Charlotte was far more naive than a typical freshman and that is what made for the sharp contrast between her, the roommate, the fraternity boyfriend, etc.<br>
However, I think Wolfe was in the ballpark with regard to much of the behaviors mentioned in that they certainly occur; perhaps just not as widely/frequently as he depicts. My children were/are at Vanderblit which has a reputation for study hard/party hard, but I think for some the party hard probably dials back somewhat after that initial freshman experience. Vanderbilt has made a significant to influence freshman behavior by developing The Commons as a living experience beginning with this fall's freshman class and by instituting Vanderbilt Visions, a year long orientation program that addresses many of these issue. This program will begin its third year with this fall's class.
Slightly off topic, last week there was a feature on the Today Show about a woman allowing her son to navigate his way home from Bloomingdales on the subway in NYC. The son was about to be 10 and had a subway map, fare card, and a $20 bill. Mom had trained him and he knew what to expect. There was such a debate about whether this was appropriate or not that I was reminded that in my childhood that I was allowed to take the bus downtown to the movies at that same age (small Southern town), to take off on my bike for hours at at time, etc. All that was required was to be home by dinner. We live in such a different world and as parents we have been so much more overprotective that our parents were of us (I'll be the first to stand in this line). I think that makes it harder for us to stand aside to let our children make judgements about which of these experiences they will participate in.</p>
<p>My stepnephew is graduating this year from the uni the book supposedly portrays. I thought it a highly realistic (though jaded account), except that Charlotte's home would certainly have been within driving distance of a Wal-Mart.</p>
<p>In the year the book was being written, the university medical center reported that 9.4% of students had experienced at least one alcohol blackout within the past two weeks, and nearly 40% in the past year.</p>
<p>College</a> Students at Risk During Alcohol-Related Blackouts - Alcohol Treatment and Rehab</p>
<p>Pretty realistic overall.</p>
<p>I am a huge Tom Wolfe fan and have read all of his books (some several times). Please don't take it too literally as he is just poking fun much of time with his exaggerated, satirical portraits. As the saying goes in show business, it's based upon a true story, but I would say that Wolfe's stories are meant more to entertain and ridicule than to inform. His daughter went to Duke and he himself grew up in Richmond and those influences undoubtedly color some of his story and characters. He now lives in New York and has done similar excoriations of the Wall Street scene (The Bonfire of the Vanities). </p>
<p>Having said that, the fact is that there is a huge drinking culture on the campuses of America's colleges, including at the elites (and I include some Ivies here). But the students at a place like Duke are generally well balanced and "get it." There will be outliers in any social pool and, there is a lively party scene at Duke, but it's not like this is a lifestyle that all of the students pursue for four years of undergraduate life. Far, far from it.</p>
<p>My daughter and I both read it and discussed it a couple of years ago. Neither one of us liked it much as a whole, although there were some brilliant bits in it (most notably the "f*** patois" paragraph).</p>
<p>Look, it's a satire. It's exaggerated, distorted, unfair. On purpose. It can't be taken literally at all. On the other hand, is it satirizing, distorting, exaggerating things that exist in real life? Of course it is.</p>
<p>One of the things I found interesting was how specific the book was, while pretending to be general. The specific mix of elements highlighted exists at one and only one university in the country: Duke. Of course, lots of colleges have SOME of the elements, but as a whole I thought the book was much more about Duke (in a distorted, unfair way) than it meant to be.</p>
<p>That said, it certainly wouldn't make me want to stop my child from going to Duke if he or she wanted to go there. Duke is a fine college, and even if it were EXACTLY as portrayed in the book -- which it certainly isn't -- it would be a place where the vast majority of students get a serious education from a great faculty. Practically every character on whom the book focuses is, for one reason or another, marginal in the college community.</p>
<p>Also, the least credible aspect of the book was Charlotte's almost complete lack of character. Do some students get rocked by college, begin to doubt themselves? Sure. Does it turn them into cyphers? Not that I've seen.</p>
<p>I think the book is pretty accurate- obviously a lot of literary license taken.
My sister says it also perfectly descibes Penn in her days there in the late 70s! Wolfe continues to deny that he was portraying Duke, but come on......</p>
<p>The funny part was inviting Wolfe here as a keynote speaker, during which he made some of the most insensitive comments I've heard spew forth from the commencement podium... He</a> said:
[quote]
You know, in this country, practically every American has a very vivid picture of undergraduate life. They may have gotten it from Animal House or Van Wilder, but still, it's very vivid, and almost nobody has a real sense of the life of a graduate student.
[/quote]
and then two years later pens something nearly more hyperbolic than those two movies...</p>
<p>And of course, this gem:
[quote]
So that you can be sure that right now, as we meet here in Durham and in Wade Stadium that your electrician, your air conditioning repair man and your burglar alarm installer are right now in St. Kitts, or Barbados or Puerto Vallerta. They are on the terrace of a resort hotel. He's wearing his Ricky Martin cane cutter shirt open down to the sternum, the better to allow the gold chain to twinkle in his chest hairs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For those who think the book is anything more than stereotypes, stretched and strung together to sell copy, I have a bridge I am willing to cut you in on, sub-prime.</p>
<p>agree with DukeEgr above--simplistic, cartoon-ish satire, coupled with paper thin characters (and a protagonist whom I really, really couldn't stand by the end of the book.)</p>
<p>And i have no ties or interest in Duke which causes me to say this--just in good writing.</p>
<p>According to a Harvard</a> study, Duke's rate - where 40% of the 75ish% of drinkers reported binge drinking within the past year (30%) is below average (40%) for the schools they studied.</p>
<p>Among other thing, it is important to note this Harvard study takes into account results from many different education institutions and shows, like the egregious amplifications in Charlotte Simmons, many of the most negative aspects associated with colleges and universities exist across the board at those colleges and universities.</p>
<p>I think he could just have interviewed the students who were part of the university medical center survey and come out with a book very close to the one he wrote.</p>
<p>I found all the characters to be narcissistic and not a single one likable. I do not believe it represents the complete experience many kids have. Further, if I found out S1 (who is in a fraternity) treated anyone, and in particular the way most males are portrayed treating women, as described in that book, it would be the salt mines for him. (In fact, he received a thank you from the parents of a woman who got drunk for the first time at a frat party and who S1 made sure was safe and got home with out incident. I also found it interesting that she told her parents.) I think the NYT article posted in a different thread about what a parent observed visiting campus is perhaps more accurate.</p>
<p>I am sure that there are many who prefer to believe in a fictionalized account of Duke, as it serves their various purposes. I'm also quite sure I remember reading about that on here long, long ago before The Great LAX Thread Purge. :D</p>
<p>I liken Charlotte Simmons to the movie, Animal House, which depending on who is doing the telling, was based on college and fraternity life at Dartmouth. Anybody not sending their kid to Dartmouth because of Animal House?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Anybody not sending their kid to Dartmouth because of Animal House?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think that Dartmouth's extreme frat presence and unusually heavy drinking culture is a perfectly legitimate reason to look elsewhere. Many potential students do.</p>
<p>To the original poster, I think that it is not only legitimate that that you and your child examine the drinking cultures at that schools you are considering, but you would be doing a disservice to your son or daughter if you didn't. </p>
<p>While there is drinking at all colleges and universities, there are signficant differences among schools in the rates of heavy binge drinking, in the second hand impact of heavy binge drinking (fights, disruption of study, sexual assault, vomit in the dorms), and in the comfort level for non-drinkers or moderate drinkers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think that Dartmouth's extreme frat presence and unusually heavy drinking culture is a perfectly legitimate reason to look elsewhere.
[/quote]
Friend's D chose Rice over Dartmouth for precisely those reasons.</p>
<p>Just to be clear, I'm not endorsing the frat life of Dartmouth, but rather to show that the preposterous scenes throughout Animal House are hardly a real-life depiction of what was going on at Dartmouth. The movie took a story line that had some factual underpinnings involving excessive drinking and created a movie that was entertaining to millions of movie goers. Undoubtedly, Dartmouth had (and still has) fraternity parties that involve excessive drinking and this may turn some off and drive them to other schools. But I hope no one actually believes that Animal House was a serious picture of Dartmouth.</p>
<p>I don't believe anyone equates Animal House with Dartmouth. I was only pointing out that an "apparent" drinking culture may not be a fit for everyone.</p>
<p>That said, A H had a certain warmth to it that "I am ..." did not. I would choose the AH campus over the "I am" campus in a minute.</p>
<p>So far, S survived 4 years of Wolfe's decadence! :D</p>
<p>(He has 2 weeks and 3 days of classes remaining.....)</p>
<p>I enjoyed reading it and will suggest my daughter read it. And I am glad she'll be going away to college next year at a college where the frats are a relatively small part of university life.</p>
<p>She has read Pledged and is glad to be going away to college next year at a college where the sororities are a relatively small part of university life.</p>