So you would be fine paying a $200,000 price tag for for a teenager with a still-developing brain as long as some over-paid con artist provided the guidance instead of the kid himself? Huh? You’re wasting the 200K regardless, a college counselor cannot magically inspire an unmotivated kid. Like malan said, if the kid isn’t interested and can’t do it himself, the solution isn’t throwing more money down the drain.</p>
<p>Screw medical school, I should get into college counseling so I can siphon cash from painfully gullible Westchester helicopter parents.</p>
<p>“So you would be fine paying a $200,000 price tag for for a teenager with a still-developing brain as long as some over-paid con artist provided the guidance instead of the kid himself?”</p>
<p>No, others would though. In my case, for S I am providing the guidance, for free. Each of my kids applied themselves to the task to different extents. but they all got my input, for what its was worth. Maybe if I was a stranger who was a purported “expert” they would have listened to me more.</p>
<p>I would not pay someone because I am not made of money and I fancy that I know enough myself. Others have more, and feel they know less, I do not judge them.</p>
<p>Whether it is me, or a hired 'expert",hopefully the point is to provide resources and advice to aid in the decision process, not to make the decision for them. Nobody is telling them what to do, they are given advice,feedback and suggestions, which may (or in the case of my kids, will) be ignored.</p>
<p>As for the last, from what I see here, the opportunity does exist to siphon cash from painfully gullible Westchester helicopter parents. And Manhattan private school parents perhaps moreso. And, from what I’ve read here, some New Jersey parents as well. You’ve got to have a good marketing line though, it’s a competitive marketplace like anything else.</p>
<p>Actually my wife keeps telling me I should do it.</p>
<p>“If you get into Harvard, but had to pay $40,000 to a private counselor to do so, you didn’t really get in.”
Some counselor proponents might counter that this attitude is in part why you are not attending Harvard , and they are.</p>
<p>But I happen to know for a fact that some of your colleagues at Cornell paid too.
Not d2, but others.</p>
<p>This is kind of a rant and probably o/t, but I think the days of parents pushing their children to do something big like going to college that they don’t want to do are nearing their end. We don’t have enough smart, but not “college-type” kids doing things like working right out of high school and getting practical experience or heading off to trade school in this country (this is a problem even the President, who I rarely agree with, is talking about, which I applaud him for) because of this attitude among parents that their kid <em>needs</em> to go to a four year school. If they don’t have the motivation to go to college, that’s their prerogative. /rant
Good for them, I’ll still be better off in 10 years. I’ll have learned the lessons and had the independent life experiences they should have had during these teenage years. Also, for the record, I totally would’ve gotten into to Harvard had I applied Cornell had the program I wanted…plus, I heard the hockey program up there sucks.</p>
<p>Or, maybe in 10 years you will be a drone working for some other guy who learned, in part by paying attention to the actions of his successful, executive helicopter parents, how to intelligently leverage his time by avaling himself of expert input and services where these are available.</p>
<p>My parents spent the 2000 or so dollars to have a counselor that would meet with me regularly, email me back quickly, and give me the attention that my school counselor could not. That being said, they don’t <em>do</em> anything that will get me into wherever, they just tell me what I need to do, what kind of grades I need to get, and help me find some internships and community service programs that they’ve worked with before. If I don’t get into wherever, I can only blame myself for not getting those straight A’s or not doing that internship or not getting that leadership position. If I did do all that, well then it’s probably a matter of fit.</p>
<p>Yes…? I don’t see why that’s contentious. Aren’t we supposed to be promoting maturity, determination, self-esteem, and self-motivation in our teenagers?</p>
<p>If your teenager received a top award for a website he/she designed, and then you found out he/she really only subcontracted it to a 3rd party, does the teen really deserve that award?
Even if the subcontractor only told the teen what the aesthetics should be like, what looks good together, what type of features to include, and how to put together the overall package, and the teen coded it him/herself, is it really still the teenager’s work that is being awarded?</p>
<p>"Yes…? I don’t see why that’s contentious. Aren’t we supposed to be promoting maturity, determination, self-esteem, and self-motivation in our teenagers?</p>
<p>If your teenager received a top award for a website he/she designed, and then you found out he/she really only subcontracted it to a 3rd party, does the teen really deserve that award?
Even if the subcontractor only told the teen what the aesthetics should be like, what looks good together, what type of features to include, and how to put together the overall package, and the teen coded it him/herself, is it really still the teenager’s work that is being awarded?'</p>
<p>…my D is all the things you mentioned. She is outstanding in every way…but her “stats” are in the low average range for Cornell. I see nothing wrong with gaining information from this website & the Cornell site & passing it along to her, which in turn may increase her chances of getting in. She chose Cornell as her number one choice, the college she wants to apply to, the major, went to the info session, has visited twice. However both of my D’s have turned to me for info with their college searches because they know I like to do it. They respect my insight & research & like to discuss it with me ( I work in the education field). Same thing for legacies, minorities, and recruited athletes…doesn’t make any difference how you get there but rather what you do once you’re there…kind of like a job??</p>
<p>I think this is more of a matter of kids who had to do everything themselves, HS guidance counselers sucked and they really didnt want their parents much involved or their parents didn’t know much about top colleges anway, against those who’s parents do everything for them (baby them- usually daughters) and don’t let the kids learn for themselves.</p>
<p>I can see both views, but I had to find everything for myself, summer programs, research, what i tests & classes i needed to take, nothing is handed to me. I’m not paying an absurd amount of money for someone to read my essay and change it for me, its my essay, instead i went on CC and asked people for advice and revision. This is wise and shows independent initiative. However, i know someone ( a girl) who’s father looks up everything for her. Although that is fine, she is really general knowledge dumb and definitely not does not think for herself…</p>
<p>@csdad, I think you are also confusing the points. I don’t see it as terrible if you have some input into your D’s college decisions, or if you find information for her, etc.</p>
<p>But you know your daughter, you have raised her, you know what she does, what her strengths are, and who she is, intimately. You are not a college counselor, a stranger for all intents and purposes, who is being paid to do this as your job. You are emotionally invested in this process because of its personal connection to yourself, you aren’t fiscally motivated (probably quite the opposite as it usually would cost you less to send your D to a public school).</p>
<p>Also, there is nothing wrong with having a mentor or a teacher or a parent read an essay. Picking out grammatical mistakes or helping with flow are great pieces of advice. But college counselors often choose topics for their clients, ghost write parts of it, and screw with the entire mood/language of a piece. If after reading it, you say “that doesn’t sound like my D/S,” then that wasn’t written by them.</p>
<p>I also worry about the character of people who rely on others to find (all) information for them. I see first hand here on CC how people will ask others to find them something that takes less than 2 minutes of googling. I hope you are letting your daughter find things on her own, because it’s these same types of kids who get to Cornell and call their parents to manage everything for them. It’s only after you’ve exhausted your options for searching that you should turn to someone else.</p>
<p>Your child should know their way around:
[ul]
[<em>]google
[</em>]the Cornell handbook
[<em>]the Cornell webpage
[</em>]schedulizer
[<em>]aptstudent
[</em>]the career services webpage
[<em>]the dining website
[</em>]the housing website
[<em>]gannett website
[</em>]NUBB
[<em>]justthefacts (and DUST if in CALS)
[</em>]netpay
[li]etc. [/li][/ul]
Let this be a checklist. If there is something he/she (or you) don’t know about/know well, take the time soon to learn it. It will save you tons of hassle in the long run.</p>
<p>if you knew an employee in company x, and you then applied, interviewed, and got the job, even though you were evaluated by a different employee, would that mean you didnt get the job on your own merit?</p>
<p>if a student wants to pay thousands of dollars for a college counselor, who basically tells them when to submit x application or do x activity in school, more power to them. i just think it’s a waste of money. a college counselor cant really predict whether a student will get into a certain university, since there are so many factors and variables that the admissions officers look for. if the student wants to get into HYP, for example, they still need to get the SAT scores and GPA themselves. its not like the counselor is doing their homework for them. </p>
<p>but also going with your logic, are you saying that when i was in high school and stayed after school everyday for help in my math and science courses, using my teachers as “tutors”, i didnt deserve my 4.0 gpa? or that because i took SAT courses, i didnt deserve to get the scores i received on my SATs and ACTs? or since i had a private art teacher i didnt really do my portfolio that i submitted to get into cornell architecture ED? i think your argument doesnt make sense. the college counselor simply guides the student, but the student still has to do the work himself to be competitive. its not like you have to write on your application that you are using john doe as a counselor.</p>
<p>I think that if you learn to play the game, or have smart parents who can do it, then all the more power to you. I just wish that these “college/guidance counselors” didn’t have to charge extravagant sums of money to teach kids how to get into college. I’m pretty sure that a majority of seniors at Cornell or any other Ivy League know just as many tricks about “gaming the system” as these gorram counselors do. Also, it’s not the end of the world if your son/daughter doesn’t get into their “dream school.” There’s a lot more to life beyond college, it is most certainly not the “best time of your life” as American Pie and popular culture would have you believe. It’s just another step in the process to adulthood. “Guiding” a student should be about making sure he/she gets the experience and education so that he can succeed by himself. </p>
<p>“Give a man a fish and you can feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.”</p>
Cornell had the program I wanted…plus, I heard the hockey program up there sucks.</p>
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