Sorry, accidentally replied to @MDparent22 when I was referencing your post. See it above. The CB does equate test scores to college grade equivalents.
Ouch - and sorry that no one better informed had jumped into whatever thread to balance whatever input.
There are two motivators for maximizing APs - one is financial. State schools and other colleges that are very generous in accepting AP credits, would allow a student to graduate early. In that sense, the investment into AP classes pays back directly in college tuition saved.
The other motivator are highly selective colleges. They know that any of those 90th percentile kids (whether ACT/SAT, class rank, AP load, etc.) are likely to handle the academic load at their college. As long as core subjects are covered, 9 AP classes will in no way indicate to them a better suited student than 6 AP classes. (One could even argue that a student throwing in some non-AP courses in specialty subjects/areas might show a much more independent thinker, pursuing an interesting mix of interests/talents/engagements instead of just chasing weighted-GPA decimals.)
For those highly selective colleges, once the baseline expectations indicate a strong candidate, the totality of the applications, as well as the collegeâs targets/ambititions for the âshapeâ of a that yearâs class, will more likely determine individual acceptances.
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There is definitely some of that around here, but what gets me even more is the tiering of APs whereby some APs are deemed adequately rigorous while other APs are deemed essentially slacker classes (despite being APs). AP stats comes to mind (and the sometimes posed question, why would you take a low rigor course like AP stats when you should be taking high rigor AP Calc BC or whatever) and the pearl clutching over AP Envir Science which to some people is apparently no better than a remedial middle school science class (yes, that is slight hyperbole. Slight.) But I am curious, is there any evidence that AOs actually tier and judge that way? Does actual interest play no role in course selection anymore?
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My impression is that more than about a dozen AP classes doesnât help at all for admissions.
Yes. I donât recall whether it was the dean of admissions at UChicago or CMU who told us (when he came to the school) that there are stronger choices than AP Stats. Very gently. Our school is very keen to send out every kid with a Calc BC if at all possible. As a minimum. If they feel the kid isnât capable, they wonât push, but if the kid is capable they strongly encourage not choosing away from Calc BC.
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You can be certain that AOs are well informed about the AP offerings. Depending on the general focus of a particular college, and possibly the major applied into (or interested in), they will understand where BC calc is expected, where AB calc is rigorous enough, or where Stats might actually be a âgood matchâ for a particular professional target.
And yes, an English AP class will be much more relevant for what a student will face at many colleges than other subjects.
That is not to say one should not include AP classes that lie in oneâs are of interest - but the ones âwatchedâ for are core subject classes, in most cases.
Iâd lean towards closer to half that figure. Your schoolâs counselors will be very open what defines ârigorâ when they submit their paperwork - and you might be surprised how very level-headed they are. Beyond ârigorâ, there is no separate check-box for âoverkillâ
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Likewise, they may use the term rigorous to describe learning environments that are not intended to be harsh, rigid, or overly prescriptive, but that are stimulating, engaging, and supportive
I love this part of the definition.
My DIL taught AP Euro and AP American History in HS. She is now working on her PhD and has graded AP exams nationally for the past few years. When she taught HS(her second year of teaching) 95 of her 100 students got a 4 or 5 on the AP exams (money in your pocket if your college accepts credit). The other teacher with those AP classes had a 40 percent pass rate for the AP exams.
Sheâs a great teacher (and Iâm sure most of us have been lucky to have one). She was sweet but had very high expectations for a high level of work from her students. She spent HOURS gradiing essay questions, writing her own questions and comments (why did you conclude this?, what about such and such? reword this, unclear, etc.). She WORKED on getting the best out of her students. And they responded. Iâm sure grades got better as the students progressed in the year. Iâd call that rigorousâhigh expectations to perform along with teaching how to get there.
My D had one English teacher in HS (why only one? ugh.) who FINALLY laid down the law on sloppy work. After years of some misguided teacher thing about âwe donât want to circle too many mistakes on a page because itâs discouragingâ and then passing out âA"s (hey, I got an âAâ what are you complaining about?â) she got an old school teacher who circled EVERY thing wrong on an essay from misspelled words to a misplaced comma. You wouldâve thought the paper was written in red ink.
What to do? âDo it overâ (and over, and over again). First D was mad, then upset, then decided that teacher was her absolute favorite. D turned into an absolutely great writer (literally). If she wrote a story or essay it would be returned with "great work SO FAR but what about the conclusion? Needs to be stronger. Or âexplore this theme more fully.â Time for another rewrite.
That teacher did a ton of work making my D a great writer. She couldâve just put a grade on the paper and let it go but cared enough to actually teach better writing.
My sonâs HS did put a cap on APâs by his senior year (he already had plenty to be honest). He wanted more than the limit and ended up in the counselorâs office for a discussion about it. He was totally capable of it but his reasoning was the bestâŠ
âI picked out the teachersânot just the classes. If I canât have those teachers then why bother at all?â Easy sign off on taking the classes.
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Completely agree, and this was the norm back in the 90s, and the tippy tops rewarded this. School needs to get back to students learning concepts deeply, and loving the life of the mindânot superficially cramming for as many APs as possible. Maybe Iâm a dinosaur, but that seems to be getting lost these days.
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This varies by state. 75% of accepted students at UGA have more than 8. In the northeast, among kids of friends, 8 might actually be more than anyone has taken.
One of my favorite HS teachers was an English teacher known for giving out grades like âC- - - - - - (gift)â.
And it was the same dealâshe truly cared about us becoming better writers, and it totally paid off for many of us.
In northeast Georgia? Or the northeast of the country? I donât believe this is true in the northeast of the country in states like NJ, NY, CT, or MA at the least.
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AP s that are self given are not helpful for admission I think. What tends to happen is that at high schools that offer a bunch of APs , you might also have a bunch of post AP classes. And often these might be the better choice (from an educational point of view) than taking more APs beyond some number, because they reflect your interests more closely. In the process if you stop at some number like 10 or 12, itâs ok. And donât take the silly APs and over count â ie AP CS P and AP CS A â I would count them as just one . Also if you took Calc AB and Calc BC I would count that as just one. Realistically, this is a good set â Chem, Bio, World, US, Gov, BC, Physics Mech, Physics EM, Lang, Lit, Macro, Micro, MTheory, CS A. If you drop 2-3 from this, it is not the end of the world. I have a kid that dropped some 4 of these, and it was ok. He had some half a dozen other post AP courses â 3 in math and 3 in CS.
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We are in the NE. Our HS limits APs to 6 total (cannot begin until junior year).
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Iâve heard stories from kids who went to take âregularâ classes - not only were they not challenging but theyâre filled with kids with discipline issues - kids smoking in the corner and the teachers given up on correcting; fights breaking out etc. These are also the schools that have magnet/IB programs so a lot of kids take AP classes just to be amongst like minded peers and escape the disciplinary issues. Canât really fault them for that.
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Our school requires it. If you need more hand holding theyâll put you with a slower teacher, but it is required unless waived for some reason
At our high school in MA, itâs rare to have someone with more than 8 APs. Other high schools near us are the same. APs arenât allowed until junior year. Maybe NJ is different.
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I think to some extent it is just that the high school is budgeting costs when it is limiting the number of APs. Because there are other parts of the country where kids are willingly taking a large number of APs or even more advanced courses, and thriving. Both my kids would bring the course list the morning it was due and get our signature. We had no input, and it was not asked.
Some elite schools also consider their own offerings to be more rigorous than the APs and donât feel the need to offer more than some core APs.
But yes, others may limit for budget reasons.
In any case, if the school only offers a limited number, I donât believe AOs expect their students to take additional ones on their own.
The problem, in my view, is when the school offers many APs and a student whose planning to apply to highly selective schools doesnât take the most rigorous ones offered (example, taking only CS Prin instead of CS A, when both are offered).
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They were both making a generalization about what is common in the region. I donât think your school is common, and more than mine is (where we have way more APs than some districts can afford).
Iâve seen nothing to suggest schools that have a lot of APs are more common in the south than the NE states as a whole. Both regions have plenty of schools that canât afford a lot of APs and have some schools that have many. Our NE-region HS has 26 AP offerings and most of the kids who get into the well known highly rejective schools have taken at least 10+ and 15 is not unheard of. And thatâs despite the school significantly restricting APs in the first two years.
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Private schools or magnet schools are usually the only ones that offer those.
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