<p>Hey guys,
I've done pretty badly on my APs but my course load is extremely heavy and I'm taking all accelerated classes (I'm in a magnet program so instead of taking AP Physics I would take a Magnet physics class). </p>
<p>Overall in high school I got 3 5s, 2 4s, and 2 3s. The 2 3s were in the sciences unfortunately. Will Harvard/other ivies frown upon this or will my course load/SAT IIs make up for it?</p>
<p>Harvard is the only college I’m aware of that seems to place greater emphasis on AP tests than on the SAT Subject tests or the SAT/ACT: [Guidance</a> Office: Answers From Harvard’s Dean, Part 2 - NYTimes.com](<a href=“http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/11/harvarddean-part2/]Guidance”>Guidance Office: Answers From Harvard's Dean, Part 2 - The New York Times)</p>
<p>"Standardized tests are generally more predictive of academic success at selective colleges than at others, but you make an important point: it is abundantly clear that one size does not fit all when it comes to testing. Some colleges have found that standardized tests are not particularly helpful in predicting grades at their campuses and have de-emphasized tests or made them optional.</p>
<p>That said, our studies consistently demonstrate that standardized tests are helpful in predicting Harvard grades. Of course many other factors are important too, including high school grades, teacher and counselor recommendations, and intangible personal qualities that are reflected throughout the application.</p>
<p>We have found that the best predictors at Harvard are Advanced Placement tests and International Baccalaureate Exams, closely followed by the College Board subject tests. High school grades are next in predictive power, followed by the SAT and ACT. The writing tests of the SAT and ACT have predictive power similar to the subject tests."</p>
<p>IMHO, Harvard is the only top college who has been candid about the relative importance of various standardized tests. Privately, I have heard similar comments from adcom officers of other colleges.</p>
<p>1) Do you want to do science? If yes, then that’s a much bigger drawback than if you want to do art and still got 3s in sciences.
2) Does Harvard make you submit APs now? Back in my day, (voice creaks), sending your AP scores was optional until you were admitted, and it might just be easier not to.</p>
<p>Are 4s terrible? I took Calc BC as my first AP, when lots of things were going on and received a 4. I have done/am doing two more years of math for school credit via MIT OCW. </p>
<p>Harvard is probably aware of changes made to CB tests such as AP Bio, right? I would imagine they’re well connected.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure what Harvard thinks of 4’s as they look at applications. Once admitted though, only 5’s count – that’s true for “Advanced Standing” (graduating in less than 4 years) and the exemption from the Foreign Language requirement. See: [Advanced</a> Standing Office of Undergraduate Education](<a href=“Office of Undergraduate Education”>Office of Undergraduate Education)</p>
<p>I probably won’t take credit for anything if I attend a selective US school since the quality of teaching is probably better than at my school. With regards to admissions- it’s unlikely one think will ‘break or make’. Hopefully my later, post sophomore year math stuff is acceptable. In any event, I can but try.</p>
<p>Yes, I do want to do the sciences. On the SAT subject tests, I have gotten 760+ in math II, bio, physics, and chem. I will not submit my science AP scores, so will it look bad that I have not taken the AP exams for these subjects?</p>
<p>Be careful here…yes…Harvard and its peers do not “require” that you “report” your AP scores to them on the application…but, many high schools have transcripts that automatically include all your AP scores along with many of the State subject exam results attached to your grades (whether you like it or not)…and you can’t ask them NOT to send them…</p>
<p>…so, if you took certain AP classes throughout your 3 years and not report the scores…it will seem odd to Harvard that you left the scores out from the common app when your high school sent them anyways…</p>
<p>…it would be a good idea to find out now whether your high school is one of many in the country that do this…and if they do…better to be honest and report your scores to Harvard yourself than to “appear” trying to hide something…after all, YOU did take those classes…and they would be wondering why you didn’t report them…unless they were “bad”…make sense?</p>
<p>^^ Good comment, but I’d like to add one other note. </p>
<p>All selective colleges, including Harvard, are interested in students that take the MOST demanding courses at their high school. So, if a student has taken 6 AP courses, and 6 AP courses are listed on their transcript – even if the transcript doesn’t list their AP test scores – an Admissions Director is going to question why the student only listed 3 or 4 AP tests. There are only two answers to that question and they do not bode well for the student: (1) The student did not take the test and therefore his or course load doesn’t appear as rigorous as a student who took the course and the test, or (2) The student took the test, but did badly on it because they didn’t report the test grade. So, if a student self-studied for a test and did badly, they could get away with not listing it, as the course will not appear on their transcript. But if you took the course and do not list the test, it sets off a red flag.</p>
<p>…to further drive the point…HONESTY, INTEGRITY, and CHARACTER…are values that all schools seek in their candidates…one mustn’t forget the infamous Adam Wheeler case…</p>
<p>I really question whether the absence of AP scores has any meaning whatsoever in admissions. There are many good reasons not to test. AP tests are expensive, time consuming and at many schools little or no credit is given for good results. Taking two tests on the same day is extremely demanding. A student might be ill on testing day or have a more important obligation. Test dates often coincide with state level academic and athletic tournaments. </p>
<p>Our D has elected to take 4 tests so far, but has done well in all her 6 AP classes. We raised this concern directly to adcoms at two schools during campus visits and both said they don’t read anything into the absence of AP scores from an application.</p>
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<p>Was one of those schools Harvard? Because, as far as I know, Harvard is the only school that has publicly stated that they place more emphasis on AP tests than ACT/SAT tests.</p>
<p>@niceday: I don’t know what kind of school district you are in…but as I am familiar with many of the top academic affluent school districts/magnet schools around the country…most, if not all, STRONGLY recommend their students to take the AP exams (notwithstanding being “sick” as an excuse) if they have taken the course…and the AP exams are given at a specified time DESIGNATED well in advance for schools and school districts to not have any “conflicting” events or tournaments as you say…</p>
<p>…each high school makes every effort and opportunity for the student to be able to take the AP exams during their “normal schedules” without undue burden…</p>
<p>…yes, you are right, it is your or your child’s prerogative, to decide whether to take the exams or not…but, in the BIG picture, your child’s academic record with or without AP scores that will “CORROBORATE” the strength of the student’s grades/scores will help to decide the student’s “fate” COMPARED to all the other top students who DID take the AP exams and scored in the 5s…along with having other “wow” accomplishments…</p>
<p>…the only time colleges don’t really care about whether the student takes an AP exam or not is at the end of their senior year…when most seniors who have gotten into their “schools” can finally relax and enjoy some “senioritis”…</p>
<p>…FWIW, Gibby and I are trying to shed some light…and help…</p>
<p>FWIW: My daughter took eight AP tests in high school, and scored a 5 on all eight. She self-reported her eight AP tests and sent in an official report to the Admissions office. My son did the same. Generally students that take AP tests and do well on them, submit all their scores . . . which might place those that don’t take all the tests, or submit all their scores, at a disadvantage. It’s difficult to know without being in a committee room when the decisions are made. You roll the dice and take your chances.</p>
<p>In our local high school, all students in AP classes are REQUIRED to take AP tests. If one chooses not to take the test, then he/she will be bumped from the AP class, in May!</p>
<p>I agree with all the parents on this thread about reporting all your scores. I could say the same for SAT I scores as well. I forgot if Harvard accepts superscores but many of my friends who applied sent ALL of their scores for each sitting (e.g. friend A got a 2260 and a 2320 with a superscore 2380, but she sent in all 6 subscores rather than taking the 3 highest subscores). Again, this goes back to the principle of academic honesty, something that is highly valued at Harvard.</p>
<p>@icedcoffee, but how would adcoms know? if you just use score choice, they won’t know you took it more times, correct?</p>
<p>also, just as a side note- i happened to call harvard about superscoring. a representative stated (with conviction) that superscores are viewed the EXACT SAME as scores that are achieved on a single date. not very relevant but thought i would include this</p>