Appealing No Aid Whatsoever (300k in debt)?

Assets that are actually owned by siblings are not reported on any financial aid form that I am aware of, and therefore sibling assets have no bearing on any kind of EFC. Responsibility for providing higher education funding, even in part, is not placed on siblings when a student asks for need-based aid.

As early as last November you should have known that you would not qualify for much, if any, need-based aid at a variety of schools. The lack of an aid offer from Williams should come as no surprise to you (although it’s still understandably disappointing).

http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/2109239-financial-aid-even-when-efc-is-almost-full.html#latest

I have seen PROFILE schools asking for sibling account balances. They do so because savvy parents have transferred college savings from one child to another, including 529s. Whether Williams does this or not, I do not know

Confirm that Williams has all your financial aid paperwork. Did they offer you student loans? Did you submit both your FAFSA and your CSS Profile to them?

As recently as two years ago Profile asked the following general question in the Parents’ Assets section:

Enter the total value of your parents’ assets held in the names of your (the student’s) brothers and sisters who are under age 19 and not college students.

The bolding is in the original. The question is asking about assets that belong to the parents, not a sibling. The purpose of the question is to identify parent assets that have been moved to an account under a sibling’s name as part of a tax scheme to reduce taxes on investment earnings. When the kiddie tax rules were broadened, this practice was greatly reduced.

Any 529 account owned by a parent is reported as a parent asset, regardless of who the named beneficiary is. This is the same procedure that FAFSA uses. Such an account is not an asset that belongs to the named beneficiary, whether that beneficiary is the student or a sibling of the student. The account owner can change the beneficiary at any time. A 529 account owned by the student would be reported on Profile as a student asset, and an explanation should be made at the end of the form reporting the 529 value, because some schools that use Profile will count a student-owned 529 account as a parent asset, as FAFSA does. A 529 account owned by a sibling would never be reported on Profile as a student or parent asset.

If you are saying that you have seen school-specific questions on Profile that ask for sibling account balances, I find that highly unlikely. Please identify the school or schools that have considered assets that are legitimately owned by a sibling to be available for use by the student for the student’s college expenses.

My understanding and info could be dated. It would be a great if that were the case, and I’ll be looking into it further. I have nieces and nephews whose college accounts can be changed to their siblings’, in that case, so that the ones up for college have as little money in their own names as possible. IMy kids’ 529s were always in their own names, but until they were in college and around age 19, we, the parents basically ran the things as we saw fit.

Back in the day, PROFILE had the following in their instructions:

“PA-105. Include funds in custodial accounts, Uniform Gifts to Minors accounts, or other savings and investment accounts held in the names of your brothers and sisters who are under age 19 and not enrolled in college. Section 529 college savings or prepaid tuition plans are parent assets and as such should be reported as parent-owned investments in PA-120”.

This might have been changed, which opens up a lot of possibilities. I’ve always felt that the youngest child should have the most in a 529 anyways, as my experience has been that money gets tighter, and paying tuition gets old after the rush of paying for the first one’s college.

My brother is dealing with this right now, and it would make a difference as his oldest has more money put away for college than the other two.

What kind of “college accounts” are you referencing that can be changed to a sibling’s name? If they are parent-owned 529 accounts, these are properly reported as parent assets on a FAFSA or Profile of any child of the parent, regardless of who is named as the beneficiary (disregarding any divorce/non-custodial parent issue).

When you say the 529s were always “in their own names,” do you mean the 529s were owned by the student? If so, you as a parent may have had custodial powers when the child was a minor, but changing the beneficiary to a sibling (or anyone other than the owner) was not one of those powers.

The PA-105 language as of two years ago is what I pasted in post #24 above. Parent-owned 529 accounts are still reported in PA-120 (at least as of two years ago).

If the youngest child’s 529 account is owned by a parent, it will still be reported as a parent asset on the Profile for an older sibling (and on the FAFSA also, as long as the parent owner is a custodial parent).

$300,000 is the total cost of attendance, not debt, unless your parents are not contributing any money at all.
Now that you have your acceptance, and the net cost of attendance, what are your parents willing to pay?

I am a parent who cannot afford a full price private university for my kids. We have unprotected assets that are most definitely retirement assets, into which we cannot dip. We have been very open from day one about our contribution to college costs.

Kid number 1 went to one of our in state colleges with a merit scholarship, did great, loved it there, graduated, and has now a full time job with benefits that she enjoys and where she can grow.

Kid number 2 will finish high school in 3 years, and will most likely go to one of our in state colleges too. She knows she can go wherever she wants as long as she brings down the cost to the level of our instate university.

Sit down with your parents, and talk frankly so you can plan and move forward. You need to know what they are willing to contribute and go from there. If your instate honors college is your only option, you may feel disappointed, but be sure to know that you can make it work and thrive there.

From what I understand, Williams gives super aid, similar to HYPS. If so, that means that there’s a source of money that you seem to be unaware of.

Do your parents own their own business or take business deductions? If so, there’s your hole.

This financial bind is indeed common for what some might call “upper middle class” students. $300,000 is a LOT of money (per child, for undergrad only).

In our case the NPCs were accurate (married, no rental property, do not own a farm or business). My daughter was interested in small schools so I ran the NPCs on Williams, Bowdoin, and a few other similar schools and found pretty much the same thing, we couldn’t afford it.

For many students the solution is quite simple. You go to a university that is affordable. You avoid debt for undergrad and do very well, and expect to go to a highly ranked university for graduate school, or to a school with a very good program in your major.

“A state honors program on full scholarship is equally prestigious to me as Williams at full price.”

I agree with this. Also, pulling A’s and A+'s at a very good state flagship with a few good research internships can pave the way to a very good future. Just because other students from the same high school will also attend the state flagship, does not mean that they will do as well as you will (some might, and if so then good for them).

“I think I would be crazy to actually attend”

That is my personal opinion also.

At this point if I were you then I would probably appeal, but I would expect the appeal to fail and plan to attend a more affordable school. As always, when you appeal always be polite and remain calm, and don’t expect that the person that you talk to on the phone can do anything other than listen and take down whatever you tell them. In the unlikely event that the appeal works you probably would find out at a later date.

Many colleges have a financial aid appeals process that needs to be done in writing…not on the phone. So…if you call the colleges, ask what their process is for having your financial aid reconsidered. Not appealed…reconsidered.

The colleges will tell you what to do.

I agree…if you were deemed full pay at Williams, that would indicate either a large income, significant assets or a combination of the two. And yes…family owned businesses or self employed can make a difference. Owning real estate in addition to your primary residence…or rental properties…can also add to your family contribution.

You are fortunate to have an affordable acceptance!

What’s your EFC as per Williams’s NPC?
(Did you run the NPC before applying? Is there a difference between what the NPC predicted and what you got)?
What’s your parents’ income, roughly?
Do they own a house? Two houses? Own houses to rent?

Why were you shocked to receive no financial aid when your threads last fall indicate that the NPCs showed your family as pretty much full pay? It sounds like your parents are self employed, have a business, and/or have other property/assets that are driving up the EFC. Unless there was an error in the information you gave the schools or there’s been a job loss or unexpected medical expenses I don’t think you have the basis for a successful appeal.

@MYOS1634 this OP posted long ago that the net price calculators would not be accurate because of how their family finances and income are. And quite a while ago, she posted that she didn’t expect to recrive need based aid from these colleges.

She is not low income. The family simply can’t afford what the cost to attend Williams is.

But luckily, she has an acceptance with full tuition that IS affordable.

i can assure you, there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of kids who would envy your position right now. You have a full ride at Umass Amherst. Take it and count your blessings. The world won’t end because you couldn’t go to Williams.

@Trixy34

Where did this poster say she has a full FREE ride to UMass Amherst?

Look into NCF in FL. A superb tiny LAC that has tutorials like Williams, is kind of like the Reed of FL and like Reed, has a ton of alums going to grad school.

Really a hidden gem (by alumni acheivements, I rate them a near-Ivy so on the same tier as ND, Tufts, Middlebury, and Vassar).

And being NMS means you get a full-ride there.

@PurpleTitan is New College still taking applications? This poster is a senior.

There are a lot of similarities between New College of Florida & Reed College, just be sure that you are comfortable in that type of environment.

It would be odd for OP to apply to UMass-Amherst since she isn’t a state resident & has strong numbers.