<p>I noticed there have been a number of posters interested in applying for PhD programs in math for the coming year. My S is one of them. The process seems more complicated than applying for undergraduate schools. There is less information available publicly. It seems the best way to get information is to speak with others who are familiar with the process and the schools.</p>
<p>I realize that most students planning to apply to these programs don't have much time to be on CC. But I'm hoping some of you will come here and share information.</p>
<p>Right now my S is preparing fellowship applications and is working on his Statement of Purpose. He took the general GRE's this summer and will take the math subject test in October. He has a good idea of which schools are his top choices, but is less certain about his "safety" schools.</p>
<p>The best thing to do would be to talk to faculty at his school. Perhaps they can direct him in the right direction so he doesn't look at research interests of twenty professors each at fifty schools.</p>
<p>I was surprised to learn that general GRE scores for applicants to math PHD programs are higher than average on all three sections. That means that the percentiles on the score report don't really reflect where you stand in the applicant pool. What kind of scores should an applicant have to be competitive on the verbal and writing sections?</p>
<p>Assuming your son is a native speaker of English, he probably doesn't need to worry about his GRE verbal and writing scores. They don't really come into play for admissions, unless you score so ridiculously low that it appears you're not able to communicate with other people in English. One of my professors that didn't have English as his native language said that he worried about the verbal section of the GRE (before he found out that they didn't matter) because on average he only knew the meaning of 2 or 3 of the 5 possible answers when taking the test. He still got in to Princeton.</p>
<p>If you have any other questions, I'm fairly familiar with how the process goes (and will be going through it this fall). I started taking classes at my university senior year of high school, so the people I took classes with for 4 years went through the process last year and are at grad school now.</p>
<p>Which fellowships are your son applying for? The only one I'm aware of is the NSF fellowship (which would literally be a dream come true for me...I often fantasize about getting an NSF fellowship and living it up at a school with a low cost of living).</p>
<p>Also, does your son have an idea about what specific sub-field/sub-fields he wants to go in to? Even if he's only got it down to a few, it'll still help narrow down choices for safety schools.</p>
<p>I would assume a math phd applicant who was a native speaker of english would have higher-than-average verbal skills, because higher math can actually require high verbal skills (precise definitions anyone?)</p>
<p>Thanks. He was told the GRE's aren't' that important for math grad programs. He is a native speaker.</p>
<p>Right now he's applying for overseas fellowships. He's hoping to do a year or two at Oxford or Cambridge before getting his PhD in the US. He does have a research area he is interested in pursuing for the next few years. I can't tell you what it is though. </p>
<p>He will also apply for American Fellowships such as the NSF, but those deadlines are later. My understanding is that even if you don't get an outside fellowship, American programs will generally supply the financial support you need. However it will require teaching and grading papers. My S was told that if you do get an NSF fellowship it restricts you to the area of study identified in your application. If you don't have an NSF fellowship you have more leeway in moving around and exploring different topics.</p>
<p>I'm certainly no expert, but I was always under the impression that you had some freedom with NSF fellowships (within reason) and that primarily they are concerned with specific restrictions.</p>
<p>For example, you specifically cannot use an NSF fellowship as a backdoor to segue into disease research, and this is enforced because the NSF's congressional mandate specifically says that NSF does not fund disease research (this is the NIH's purview)</p>
<p>Almost all decent-to-top phd programs in math/science/engineering will guarantee full funding to all students in some form or another. This can range from teaching assistantships to research assistantships (which do restrict what research you do a bit, but you don't have to teach) to full fellowships from the school itself, which give the most freedom.</p>
<p>Some (particularly Ivy League and other schools with ginormous endowments, I've discovered) give full fellowships to every phd student, but require several semesters of teaching as part of the degree program independent of funding.</p>
<p>The NSF Graduate fellowships are pretty difficult to get. I think 15-20 a year go to math students and a lot of them are Harvard, MIT PhD students. They post the winners every year and I recall a lot of bunching at the top 10 schools for the math PhD.</p>
<p>I would definitely equate it as being just as hard if not harder than getting into a top 10 school. Plus for the NSF fellowship you need to write a bunch of different essays relating to specific career goals, I recall it being a lot more writing than the statement of purpose for grad apps. </p>
<p>One more thing, I really don't think the restrictions matter to a math student. There are no NSF guidelines restricting a student from studying algebraic geometry. Perhaps they won't allow mathematical biology which might constitute disease research. Other than that, I highly doubt them objecting to what your son might study.</p>
<p>Good luck with that, they are really nice but very hard to get.</p>
<p>One note regarding "a year or two at Oxford or Cambridge." Oxford has a masters program in mathematics, which I assume is similar to an American masters program. Cambridge, however, has the CASM. The CASM, while highly esteemed, is sort of a can of worms for mathematicians. You get no grades or "progress reports" until the end of the year, which can make it complicated to apply to a PhD program.</p>
<p>From what I hear, though, it's easier to get into an unfunded program at Oxbridge--I love saying that--than a domestic PhD program. The reason: you or some foundation pays through the nose for it.</p>
<p>There are plenty of people doing biology research under NSF, it's just that you can't get an NSF fellowship by proposing to do "disease-related" biology research (or proposing something else then switching to disease work after you get it)</p>
<p>Yes, it is very hard to get an NSF fellowship. I was reading a blog once (by a current professor of physics at caltech) relating his story of getting a NSF fellowship. He had applied to Harvard for a PhD in physics and was rejected - after he got the NSF fellowship, he called the harvard department of astronomy, who gladly took him in (instead of physics).</p>
<p>S took the math GRE subject test this morning. What kind of score does he need for the top programs, or does this matter much? I would imagine that most applicants to top programs are well beyond the topics covered in the subject test.</p>
<p>80th percentile or higher will keep him competitive for the top programs. Also, if he's serious about only attending a PhD program at a top university he might want to apply to CASM at Cambridge as a back-up plan in case he doesn't get into his university of choice. While most of the CASM students I know already have secured places in top PhD programs, I also know quite a few who got into the programs they were previously denied at after completing CASM.</p>
<p>Is CASM the same as the math tripos at Cambridge? He's already applied to that, but he can't afford it without a fellowship. He's heard the same thing, if you make it through the tripos you can basically get in anywhere.</p>