Application Inflation Has Many Causes and Consequences (Chronicle of Higher Edu.)

Parent Cafe
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Sure, we can ask for it. I just don’t see why colleges would feel compelled to provide it when it’s not in their own self-interest. </p>

<p>Is it all that unusual for 17 or 18 y/os to be skeptical about what they read in a glossy publication? My kids seem to have absorbed “let the buyer beware” at very early ages. They read the fine print, don’t get suckered in by phishing emails, and know when advertising is trying to manipulate them. Even if they didn’t know that as late teens, their dad and I knew it. I still see college marketing as a great way to teach kids the realities of the big cold world of marketing.</p>

<p>Maybe colleges should be held to a higher standard. But as long as they market like a developer with a nice plot of Florida swampland, it’s just easier to develop some healthy skepticism instead.</p>

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<p>Just wait 'til spring and all the hand wringing posts about acceptances vs. costs. Think of all the energy and costs associated by colleges to send out acceptances and finaid letters to families that clearly aren’t going to result in enrollment. And we wonder why college costs have risen so dramatically.</p>

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<p>I agree frazzled - it’s been an education for us, for sure. These days I refer to it as “the battle for his (DS’) soul”. DS has received missives from Yale, Harvard, Brown, and Cornell, (just 1 from each thank goodness) as well as stacks from the ones he has expressed interest in, and an additional stack from places we’ve never heard of. </p>

<p>The funniest are the “letters” from alumni saying “sylvankid, I’ve heard you are interested in Some University or Other. You have made a wise choice…”, when we have never even heard of the place let alone expressed any interest in it. DS gets a charge out of those :).</p>

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<p>momofthree - you have made some excellent points. This college application nuclear arms race results in so much wasted, time, money and trees!</p>

<p>My older son only applied to 6 collegs - 4 acceptances and 1 WL as the result. Planning for S2 to apply to 4-7 next year. It seems to be that the more selective your goal - the more apps you need to submit. If you have your heart set on a top 20 school - than 10-15 apps might be needed. But I think that really is a tiny fraction of the overal population of high school seniors. For the average decent student - 6 should be enough.</p>

<p>From the college standpoint - I think it all stems from USNWR and overall bragging right that are applications are up by x% this year - this is the most applications we have ever received, blah blah blah. Unfortunately, people due assign value judgments to this info. If you have a school whose application volume has gone down this year, wouldn’t you stop and wonder why? What’s going on there - what’s wrong? My son has Elon on his list and those were my first thoughts when I saw that both their ED and EA apps had fallen this year. They still have more than enough to fill their freshman class several times over - but it does cause me to wonder why? I think colleges must have tremendous pressure from alumni, board of trustees, etc. to see growth in applications every year and that is taken as a measure of success.</p>

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<p>Does anyone know how many fee waivers a low-income student gets to use when applying? Maybe that should be the model that gets used if we really want to democratize the playing field (please don’t all yet at me at once).</p>

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<p>It used to be that there was sufficient self-selection in applicant pools for elite schools that 30-40% were accepted (once true at the likes of MIT). Now, every HYP wannabe (Stanford and Brown come to mind) have acceptance rates of <10%. It jacks up their revenue from application fees and gives the appearance that they are somehow more selective than schools with equally brilliant student bodies.</p>

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<p>college - there is no set limit. I have read that NACAC recommends 4 - but I do not believe that is enforced the way the fee waivers for SAT and ACT are. I really don’t see that population as causing the problem, however. It’s more the wealthy student with a paid consultant who is helping with apps and essays - and to whom paying 20 app fees and paying to send 20 SAT/ACT scores is no problem - who is inflating the numbers. But again, this is probably also the student who wants a top 20 admit - and the end justifies the means.</p>

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<p>Some of it’s just chatter and fad. The colleges/unis do change incrementally over long periods of time, but there are definitely “in” colleges that ebb and flow in kids’ “hotness” flavor. This is especially seen with the smaller regional scohols…Carleton is “hot” or Macalester is “hot” or Elon is “hot” or some other college is hot because of some reason. Happens with majors also, engineering is very popular right now so the engineering schools get alot of chatter. Happens with just about any commodity…craftsman style houses for a while, white kitchens then black kitchens, certain car brands. Everyone wants the ‘status’ brand for a while. The herd mentality is alive and well in this country and marketers just want to capitalize on it while they can because “success” is measured in numbers: JD Powers, USNWR, Consumer Reports…we love to rank in this country on any measure. It matters more in the moment than over the long haul. I saw that comment about Elon and thought “lucky the kids that applied this year.”</p>

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<p>The elite schools do not give prospective applicants a real sense of how difficult it is to get in. Why doesn’t HYPS tell people at their info sessions that, unless they have some amazing EC activity or talent, they are very unlikely to be admitted if they are not one of the top 10 kids in their class and have top test scores (they could even point out the caveats for first generation, URM, and legacies)?</p>

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<p>Re: Limiting # of apps – Our D was one of those high stat applicants last year who applied to numerous schools. It wasn’t something she particularly wanted to do but rather felt she HAD to do because of sheer competition. After reflecting upon our experience last year, I would definitely be a proponent of limiting the number of applications a student could submit provided that a student meet certain benchmarks (GPA, test scores) before being considered eligible to apply (merit-based qualifier). Obviously, the US does not operate like other countries who employee this type system (We consider such factors as URM status, first generation, recruited athletes, socio-economic status, etc.); consequently, I suppose those students with very high stats will continue to cast a wide net in hopes of catching one or two great fishes.</p>

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<p>^^Cubsfan15…because that information is readily available. An admin conducting an information session has no knowledge of the individual situations of the people who chose to attend the info session. The choice to apply or not is still a student’s responsibility to assess their own qualifications, finances, fit etc and make informed decisions about where to apply. At this point in history there is no “clearing house” that will green light students to apply at particular institutions of higher learning. Students still need to do some research and preliminary fact finding before compiling an objective list for applications.</p>

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<p>I think you guys are taking your knowledge of colleges for granted. Maybe you’re aware of what’s out there and have the ability to realize when a college is worth applying to, but for most people, the extent of their choice comes to should I go to the local community college, or my local state school. These are probably the types of kids that Harvard and the other top schools are trying to attract, and not those who are “nervous” about college admissions or those who are also considering “the nice little school in Ohio.” (and just a comment about this - even people in Ohio don’t know about those nice little schools. I didn’t know the difference between Kent State and Kenyon until a few years ago, and the majority of the people in my high school were probably completely unaware of schools like Denison or OWU even though they were less than an hour away).</p>

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<p>I don’t see the problem with this. Otherwise, you’re limiting yourself to only applicants that are aware that Harvard may be an option.</p>

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<p>My S is a senior deeply involved in the application process at the moment. As a consequence, I have fullly enjoyed every aspect of this conversation since he and I have often discussed these issues. Are there greater numbers of students graduating from high school (in numbers which correspond to the growth in college applications)? Are more students internationally achieving an education that prepares them for US colleges? Have colleges all truly added new applicant pools (e.g., lower income, first generation, international, multicultural, etc.)? Are a greater percentage of graduating students applying to colleges? How much has marketing impacted the numbers - especially aggressive third party efforts with the vilified unsolicted “you are who we want letters?” What real effect have rankings had - especially US News? How many more applications are the result of low fee or fee waivers? How many more spots have colleges actually added? What about the students themselves? How many more kids now apply to college because of test preparation services, personal tutors, career counselors, college guidance books, college oriented websites like CC, etc.? How many kids are simply better prepared for college - smarter, more involved, and aware of the rules of the game?</p>

<p>We’ve talked about all of these but the one single factor that seems to stand out for us is the number of applications submitted per student. IMO, this is one of the greatest factors at play as students are supported and encouraged to apply to a greater number of colleges. Each student has to have: a few reach/stretch schools; at least a handful of probable or target schools; and, of course, some safety colleges. Is that a minimum of three or something closer to eight, nine or twelve? Ultimately, each of these students can only attend one school. No matter what the acceptance decisions of the various colleges, the yield rates will drop in reverse proportion to the average number of schools students apply to.</p>

<p>For me, I would greatly prefer all colleges to accept early decision as it would have a profound effect on reducing many of these artifically inflated numbers. I would also like to see regular admission application dates pushed back to further support EDs. Then I’d like all colleges to provide more realistic guidelines on requirements. If there truly are knock out factors, be candid about them. I would never suggest closing the door to any applicant but I would like the applicant to have more realistic information before applying. Intellectually, I fully support the concept of limiting the number of applicaitons but I think this would have to come later. Students have been shaken into thinking they must apply to many colleges since the acceptance percentages are so low at all of the schools.</p>

<p>My S has applied ED to his ideal school. We will wait to hear from them before sending in any additional applications. I know this will have no statistical impact but we are trying to do what we think would help.</p>

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<p>We could make it not in their interest by protesting their practice. If a commercial theater sold out all their seats and still advertises to get a crowd just for publicity, we wouldn’t be so meek to grant them their rights looking out for their self interest. I find it ironic we protest more when a commercial entity looks out for their self interest using a shady method.</p>

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<p>@rm: my point exactly about how the applicants who have the money to send 20 sets of fees are the ones who skew the numbers. What I’m saying is, maybe if collectively high schools and the College Board and ACT set about determining a fair cap on the numbers of transcripts and scores they’d release, then perhaps the system would gradually unclog itself. For example, if a careful analysis revealed that 10 applications is adequate to meet the needs of 95% of the applicant pool, then students and parents would be forced to really decide which schools were sensible to apply to. There would be much less overlap all around, and kids who routinely send out apps to all the Ivies, plus Stanford, Duke, etc. would be forced to winnow down their lists. The result would be fewer gratuitous apps and thus a more level playing field for the kids who are genuinely more interested in the merits of one school over another. The current ethos seems to be that any given selective school is equally interchangeable with another, and the apps have reached astronomical proportions. There has to be a way for the system to return some sense of order to itself, while still allowing kids to reach for their dreams.</p>

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Not to worry, iglooo - I’m not advising people to be “meek” about college marketing. I’m simply advocating being practical. Some may want to protest, write letters, demand committees or more oversight or what have you - well within the rights of those who find college marketing ethically questionable.</p>

<p>Or, if you’ve got a finite amount of energy and patience to spend on the college admissions process, you can educate yourself - for free - about rejection rates and admitted student profiles at colleges of interest, and proceed accordingly. This information is readily available - again for free - online on individual college websites and college search sites (like this one, for instance), in many hs guidance offices, at libraries in periodicals, etc. </p>

<p>I do not blame colleges for sending out shiny publications encouraging students to apply. Adolescents will be better off if they learn to apply a grain of salt to advertising of any kind, including those shiny publications “personalized” by the latest direct-mail techniques. Many of the rejected students at elite schools are qualified to attend, after all - the college simply can’t admit every qualified applicant. If there are students and parents out there thinking they’ve got a solid chance merely because of a slick marketing letter, they’ve got my sympathy. One hopes there’s a less naive GC involved in those cases.</p>

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<p>This may be arbitrary but I would draw a line between a shiny booklet encouraging kids to apply and a three page letter stating “You got…”. BTW, I have no direct interest in Harvard. My kid isn’t old enough yet. When my kid gets old enough, Harvard still isn’t a right school whether she can make it or not.</p>

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<p>“I can’t believe people don’t understand that they are just on some mailing list somewhere”</p>

<p>Not to single Pizzagirl out, because the view has been expressed several times on this thread, but that is quite easy for a certain group of people to say who have had the privilege of coming from a long line of college graduates OR have simply given a crap about the college selection process at all.</p>

<p>My parents were both first generation college students who applied only to 1-2 schools each. They are both smart, corporate and/or science types, with advanced degrees. They had no idea what the letters meant, if everyone received them or not, or what it actually takes to get into ANY school besides my state school. They didn’t have parents or friends that talked about this kind of stuff nor did they have any motivation to look into it themselves, considering they both became very successful after attending state schools that were not picked based on anything other than cost and proximity to home.</p>

<p>CC is definitely a bubble.</p>

<p>I think it becomes PARTICULARLY disingenuous when it’s not just a stock letter that says “you have what it takes/we want you to apply” (that in and of itself is absolutely not appropriate), but it’s that letter PLUS a literal paper application booklet. Those things must cost a fortune to print and mail. Even my corporate parents asked me curiously, “Did any of your friends get that? That looks special.” </p>

<p>Well, it wasn’t special. Which I told them. And they looked a little disappointed. If I hadn’t known it wasn’t special because of my own obsession over the college admissions process, they would have gone along with whatever. If I had said “I dunno” they probably would have assumed it WAS special.</p>

<p>So basically, not everyone is as obsessed with this process as people on CC, which, imho, is a good thing, but it’s disgusting that prestigious schools who have no trouble attracting applicants are using that to their advantage to increase selectivity, fees from applications, etc.</p>

<p>Advertising the school is one thing. Sending out information about what the school is about, what the avg. qualifications are of students who go there are, etc. is important information that everyone should have. Purposely encouraging people to apply who have no chance (which is the ONLY thing an application booklet does) is where it crosses into total sleeziness.</p>

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<p>umcp11 - agree 100%. People who read CC daily know better. People who have gone through the process with an older child probably know better. But that leaves an awful lot of people out there who look at this mailing - addressed specifically to their child - singling them out and encouraging them to apply - and attach some significance to it. It’s actually kind of sad to have to break it to them that it is just a mail merge and a marketing piece - nothing more. You are basically dashing their hopes that Harvard or some other elite institution thinks their child is special and has singled them out for attention. The bottom line is this stuff works - so colleges have no incentive to stop it. The app fee covers the cost of the promotional material and postage - their numbers are boosted for USNWR and general bragging rights - and I’ll bet most of those apps get no more than a 5-10 minute cursory review. It is a colossal waste of time and money. Again - my advice - check the box on every standardized test that you do not want mail - do not want colleges to contact you - and so forth. I see no advantage to being on these lists.</p>

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<p>“You are basically dashing their hopes that Harvard or some other elite institution thinks their child is special and has singled them out for attention.”</p>

<p>Harvard loves to be the center of this game! Every year they spend a lot of money (they have too much money, they need to spend!) on marketing. And they know this kind of story would get more attention from the world!
[She</a> finally has a home: Harvard - Los Angeles Times](<a href=“http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun/20/local/me-harvard20]She”>She finally has a home: Harvard)</p>