Apply for Aid Even if NPC says No?

Paying for College
1

<p>My son intends to apply Early Decision to a top-tier university that only gives need-based aid. We filled out the NPC and our EFC is more than the COA. In the Common App, this school specifically asks if he intends to apply for aid even though they are "need blind."</p>

<ol>
<li>I am a little unclear on one fact - I do want my son to apply for a Stafford Loan, his "skin in the game" so to speak. Does he need to apply for financial aid (FAFSA, Profile) in order to be awarded a Stafford? (And therefore we check yes, that he intends to apply for financial aid?).</li>
<li>At a top tier school, does it help or hurt to say a financial aid request is forthcoming? I can go either way here - we can say he is applying knowing very well he won't have demonstrated need according to their parameters or we can say he isn't.</li>
<li>I do recall filling out a NPC for one school (not this one) that suggested a work study job as his "aid." I would love my son to get a work-study job at school and pay for his living expenses/books, etc. By not requesting aid, does it shut him out of these opportunities?</li>
<li>Should he apply for aid now simply because he has a younger sibling and some aid might be possible in a couple of years?</li>
</ol>

<p>Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I am fine with filling out the forms and will need to for his Regular Decision choices that give merit aid. I am just trying to figure out the best course of action for this dream school.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>Even if need blind, they probably need to know if you plan to apply for financial aid because ED acceptances usually come with an estimate of financial aid. Some students need this estimate in order to know whether the school is going to be financially viable.</p>

<p>If you want Stafford loans, you will need to apply for financial aid, because those are administered and awarded through the school. Note, however, that not all schools will offer them.</p>

3

<ol>
<li>He will but you don’t need to declare it until after he’s been accepted. Just say no right now.</li>
<li>It doesn’t matter. A need blind school for admission is need blind. If you want a boost he should apply at a need aware school.</li>
<li>Yes, he is out of the WS realm if he doesn’t apply for aid. That doesn’t mean he can’t get a job on campus. Just not one designated work study</li>
<li>I would apply only because I have read that some schools won’t let you apply in subsequent years if you did not as an entering freshman. Seems silly to me but others have stated their experience.</li>
</ol>

4

<p>if we’re only talking about a Stafford loan, you can say no at this point. You don’t have to fill out CSS unless the school insists for some odd reason. FAFSA will be needed for that stafford loan.</p>

<p>As a matter of fact, you don’t even need to submit that FAFSA until much later…even as late as during the school year to get that loan.</p>

5

<p>If the school is need blind…that means your finances will not be considered for admission. But once accepted…if you check YES, your financial aid will be processed.</p>

<p>Back to the question…if you want your child to take out a Direct Loan in their name, the FAFSA must be completed.</p>

<p>If you really don’t want any loans or consideration for need based aid, then no, you do not have to apply.</p>

6

<p>From what I have seen, the schools that say outright that they are need blind in admissions are. You might want to ask if the school is need blind for ED as well, because even need blind schools can have categories where they are not. For example, the wait list, international students, certain divisions of the school, transfers. I have no idea if ED could be one of those categories.</p>

<p>You can fill out a FAFSA and hold off on appying for any of the loans and that does not constitue financial aid at the school since the money comes from the federal government. You need to fill one out whether you have need or not if you want Parent loans (PLUS), some outside scholarships, some of the state programs (Bright Futures, Hope, Promise)</p>

<p>As for work study, if it’s federal work study, your student wouldn’t be entitled to funds from it if the EFC shows no need. Gotta have need to get the federal bucks. But some schools do have their own work study funds as well. Most of the time, there are jobs for kids who want them, whether they qualify for work study or not. My kids always got work at their colleges.</p>

<p>To address a direct question about the Stafford loans, they are now called Direct Student loans and yes, you need a FAFSA on file just like for the Parent Direct Loans (PLUS) and, no, you don’t have to check that you are applying for financial aid at the school to get one of those. Again, those are funded through the feds, not the school. My son got into a bind the year before last, and took out some loans to tide him over second semster. On an unsubsidized basis, you don’t have to have any need. Anyone can take them as long as they are not getting scholarships and aid that use up the Cost of Attendance that has to be matched up with the loans. You can’ t borrow more than the school costs you, in other words.</p>

<p>The last issue about applying now because he might qualify for aid later, is one you had better ask the school financial aid director directly. Yes, there are schools where if you don’t appy for financial aid from the get go, there are sit out time periods and issues. Most of the time, schools with those rules will make exception with change in circumstance and a sibling entering college is so considerted, but they may want to see the FAFSA for that year and compare numbers to make sure a true document change in EFC is there. Things change and there are many different ways colleges treat these things, so that is something to ask financial aid directly as to what the current policy is. Most of the time whatever poicy under which you enter hold. But there are schools that guarantee to meet full need only if you applied for financial aid when you applied. Usually those schools are not the ones who are 100% need blind in admissions.</p>

7

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<p>cpt, the government provides the loans, but you have to get them through the school’s financial aid office, and the school determines whether you can have the loan or not. Some schools don’t allow them.</p>

8

<p>This is something one should check with the school’s financial aid office. I am talking generalities. If you have the FAFSA completed, and you do not need to involve any school to fill that out, you can involve the school when it comes time to take out the funds. I 've not personally seen a school that does not allow DIrect Loans on an unsubisidzed basis as long as COA rules are not breached, but I have read on this board of schools that do have restrictions. Therea re schools like Hillsdale and formelry Grove City that don’t take ANY federal money, and you cannot get any of those loans. Also some schools are not certified to get them. For example, Antioch may fall in that category, (and may not) as they are not accredited as of now. THere are some stipulations and schools can also make their own. </p>

<p>In every situation I have encountere, probably about a dozen, so just a smidgeon given the thousands of schools out there, though the funds have to be funneled through the schools, there was no problem in getting those loans mid year, actually close to the end of the year. </p>

<p>But each school makes its own administrative rules, and I fully agree that one should talk to the financial aid office.</p>

<p>BobWallace, do you know any “Mainline” school that restricts federal loans internally?</p>

9

<p>No, I have only heard of community colleges and the like that don’t give the loans, but I am not that familiar with many colleges.</p>

<p>My point was to make sure the OP understands that while the loans come from the feds, the college is the decider of whether/when/how you receive them.</p>

10

<p>I agree with Erin’s dad except for on #1:</p>

<p>If the school is need blind and you intend to apply for need, why not just check the box yes to start with? Saves you the trouble of changing it later. If they say they are need blind, it will not affect his chances of admission. There are so darned many forms/etc to keep track of in the admissions process, why add even one call or speck of work for yourself later on?</p>

11

<p>^^</p>

<p>But I dont’ think you have to go back and change the app later if all they want is a stafford loan from FAFSA. They can submit FAFSA after Jan I, and on FAFSA indicate that they want a loan. No need to go back to the school app (or Common App) and say that they’re now applying for FA. </p>

<p>An unsub Stafford loan really isn’t FA, in the true sense.</p>

12

<p>Thank you all so much for your responses. It just really threw us that a need-blind school would ask if you are applying for aid. Why ask the question at all? I’m assuming the adcom can see the answer when they are assessing the student and so wouldn’t there be cases were the answer might - even ever-so-subtly - influence the decision?</p>

13

<p>If they say they are need blind, I think they are need blind. I would not worry about that (I also used to worry about it, but have concluded that they mean what they say). The admissions officer has no way to even know how much need you are asking for or whether it would be granted – and I honestly think at the need blind schools they don’t care. I think it is a tracking mechanism to get you on the radar of the FA people so they can expect your FA docs to come in and let you know if they don’t have them. Many colleges are looking for those FA docs before they send out admissions decisions – I think we had to send tax returns to U of Chicago for the previous year (then another set after the first of the year) sometime in November last year (?), and they didn’t give out EA decisions until December.</p>

<p>We have had some extensive discussions out here in the past of whether a school that is need aware, does it make a difference if you need a lot of aid or a small amount of aid (or probably are getting no aid but check the box anyway). No one seemed to have an actual answer to that, although the general thought among experience posters was that the college probably would favor an applicant who needed minimal aid (or wasn’t getting any in spite of applying) over one who needed a lot of aid. But that was for need aware schools.</p>

<p>My D applied for need based aid, even though our EFC is pretty high (and divorced parents and a small business, so the NPC calculator was unreliable for us). She got in every place she applied – U of Chicago, Swarthmore, Harvey Mudd, etc. With a 3.7 UW GPA, I would add, so she wasn’t their top candidate. She even got some need based aid from some schools, and work study at a couple of them. We were also able to leverage a need based grant from one school to ask for a “review” at a comparable school, and in that case the school essentially matched the grant for freshman year at least. There is a LOT of paperwork in applying for FA, but in our case we found it to be worth it to check the box and do the paperwork, even though our EFC was high. She also checked the box at at least one need aware school (Carleton), and was admitted. They gave her no need based aid, though.</p>

<p>I am going to say that as costs climb and the economy continues to struggle, I suspect families that wouldn’t have checked the box a few years ago are just checking it now. Even if they thought they could handle the cost a few years ago, it is more clear now that you can have a downturn during your child’s college years, and you might wish you had applied (esp at schools that discourage you from applying later if you didn’t in the beginning). So I say if the school is need blind, just do it.</p>

14

<p>The FA question may come into play for wait-listed students because many “need blind” schools are NOT need-blind for their WL. At that point, aid has been exhausted, so not having any need can pull a kid off the WL.</p>

<p>As far as Adcoms and their conclusions…Adcoms can get a pretty good idea of affluence by a child’s high school name, zip code, parents’ professions (if mentioned), the child’s essays, and the child’s ECs.</p>