Apply to colleges in junior year

Parents Forum
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<p>"I do find it interesting that it always seems to be the parents looking into these things, not their kids...."
Well, not always. My S actually sneaked up on us with plan in hand. I took it as a sign of his maturity that he looked into every option with his GC first and then presented us an airtight academic program. The issues then became, how is he emotionally/socially and on those areas (UNlike his 2 older sibs) he is very strong and ready. We had no reason to hold him here, except our reluctance to empty the nest a year early, which we got over because it's his life and just accelerates the inevitable for us.</p>

<p>Replying to the OP, I have no handle on how to compare our public school experience with that of homeschoolers. But I did hear that Harvard has one admissions officer who reads all the homeschool apps, so might be a specialist of sorts. I wonder if he could advise you. Although his info would be specific to Harvard, you might also glean some wisdom applicable to other top colleges/unis.</p>

<p>One the emotional/social, I definitely agree that a student's life is a triangle of
these 3 areas: cognitive, social, emotional. This starts right from preschool and carries through. I taught K-2 so am very sensitive to that triangle on behalf of kids, including the bright ones. </p>

<p>This doesn't always mean holding back a super-bright kid however. A close cousin of mine, and agemate, entered Harvard at 15. I know that's not unusual. The point of my story is that my aunt was very uncertain whether to let him go. He's one of those hoo-hah geniuses...and by that age from private day school had already completed all the graduate school courses at Johns Hopkins in Math. There was simply no more enrichment available in that city (Baltimore) left for him during high school! But he was very immature, only 5'2" (still is), more like a child than a teenager emotionally. Socially he had few friends as he was among the first Jewish kid ever admitted to this prep school. His aunt asked me (his godmother) at age 17, since I was a college freshman, whether to let him go. "Who will he date? How will he make friends?" </p>

<p>I told her I thought that for him, all that was irrelevant. He couldn't "make friends" if he stayed put, and wasn't making any, because in actual fact he
had no peers at present. Intellectually, he was beyond all of his teachers, and not only in Math. He had an immeasureably high IQ like his father, over 200 they stop measuring. So he only could get A's across the boards. He rarely spoke and this didn't help him develop socially, either. He was the loneliest high schooler I knew, and he was my cousin so I cared a lot what happened to him. I told my aunt, "Let him go. At Harvard, he'll make friends on an entirely different basis; through his intellect." I predicted that in a great college like that, he'd find peers for the first time in his life and be happy. All these other factors (age, height, religion) wouldn't be reasons for him to be rejected as a friend, at a place like Harvard.</p>

<p>Well, that's just what happened. Today he's very happily married and works on Wall Street as a lawyer, with a beautiful family and a balanced ethical homelife. Still living very nonmaterialistically (and he doesn't have to), the couple chooses to pour their heart into the educations of their two daughters who are at those top NYC private schools. I couldn't be happier for him and them. </p>

<p>Point of story: if it's THAT kind of genius, just throw out all the usual hesitations and lead with the intellect; the social/emotional will fall into place.
Most of us, however, should not make the mistake that our "very smart" or "gifted-track" kiddies are in that kind of stratosphere, either. </p>

<p>My own S didn't "skip 11th grade" because he's so smart; he was just in a hurry to get on with his life. That's him by personality. Imagine a jackrabbit.</p>

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<p>Mini:</p>

<p>By the same logic, how many applicants, other than early high school graduates, are admitted to colleges on the strength of their sophomore year? Especially those that discount freshmen GPAs? That's why a very strong profile is required.</p>

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<p>For the average applicant, the colleges for the most part DON'T EVEN SEE the high school senior year, and certainly not as part of the GPA. </p>

<p>So to answer your question directly, the vast majority of applicants to the top 300 or so of the 1,600 U.S. four-year institutions are admitted on the strength of their sophomore and junior year (plus their sports, URM, legacy, and developmental status, and ability of their families to pay the bill, not necessary in that order).</p>

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<p>Sybbie, I am thrilled to learn that the new Common App is asking for explanation of why a student has self-accelerated. It was very weird to try to shoehorn than in to the old application. You can't overstate or understate it, and be well-understood by AdComs. It'll be much better when kids can lay it out openly in an appendix essay. That's a real improvement!</p>

<p>I'll add a wrinkle on the gap year. Actually, that was our S's original plan and reason for self-accelerating at the high school. He thought he'd go to Israel to work on kibbutz and volunteer on ambulances for the year, so he could be very mature upon entering college as a freshman. But there was a misunderstanding of information. Following acceptance in April, he went to process the gap year with that college and then learned their policies weren't what he/we thought. We had the info from the department, but it was overridden at the Admissions level. Yes, he could take off a year (as the dept. said) but only after putting in at least a semester at the college (Admissions Department policy). So rather than argue it, or risk upsetting a very competitive admissions at that school, plus merit aid award, he simply decided to let the gap year plan go (very sad) and postpone Israel for some future time. He didn't actually expect to be on campus in a few weeks; he expected to be in Israel and to the campus a year from now, if you can follow all of that.</p>

<p>So to the OP, I'd still recommend considering an early finish, followed by a meaningful Gap year, with the acceptance in hand so the gap year can be enjoyed. Our mistake was in mis-hearing the words of the college about their policies. Again, symptomatic of the rush we were in that fall. No regrets, however; he'll get to it all, just in a different sequence. But be VERY CAREFUL to ensure a gap year will be permitted following the acceptance, at each individual college. Don't just listen to the department; check it through with the Admissions office as well; ask 3 times.</p>

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<p>Mini:</p>

<p>That is my implied point. Colleges do not see the junior year transcript or scores of early applicants. This is what the adcom was trying to convey by suggesting that applicants needed to build the strongest possible record and suggesting that S apply RD instead of EA (S disregarded that advice, applied EA and got in, but he did have a very strong record by then--as another adcom realized).
S was in fact dismayed when he saw that some application forms did not have space for listing achievements in 9th grade.</p>

<p>On Gap Year: It is positively encouraged for all applicants, not just early graduates at Harvard.</p>

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<p>Marite, you're right....kids like ours who applied to college in junior year as their final year, had to have strong records in ninth and tenth as their junior year record isn't available, though in RD it is midyear of junior year. </p>

<p>Paying3Tuitions, until now, I never knew your son who is heading off to college graduated in three years. Sorry that his gap plan didn't work out for the reasons you mention but perhaps he can take a year off during college and live/work in Israel, or if not, then one summer. </p>

<p>I also have a sister-in-law who is much younger than we are, who did 7th through 12th grades in four years and graduated as val right after her 16th birthday. She was accepted at many Ivies, though chose Williams and received a big scholarship there that they give for graduate studies once you graduate. She went onto getting a PHD and became a tenured professor and has retired (if you can believe it) at age 38 (her current age). </p>

<p>Sybbie, I was not aware that the common app added those questions but it is a good idea. My D just chose to submit a supplemental statement with her apps that explained her decision to graduate early and her readiness for college in various developmental areas, etc.</p>

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<p>soozievt,</p>

<p>From your experience, would the fact that the family is moving to a different state at the end of the junior year be something to consider mentioning as one of the reasons for early graduation, or would sticking with purely academic reasons be a better choice?</p>

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<p>One of S's schoolmates graduated early as a result of her parents suddenly getting jobs in an another town. But: she had a 1550 SAT from 7th grade Talent Search, and she had been taking APs since freshman year. </p>

<p>My hunch is that if a student was above average but not stellar and graduated early because the family was moving, it would be better for the student to do a gap year and maybe take some college courses (but not enroll as full-time student). No matter what the reasons are, the colleges will look for evidence of strong preparation and maturity.</p>

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<p>nngmm...picking up on what marite wisely advised, I think the candidate should be a strong and viable contender for early admission even without the move. The move could contribute to the rationale that was given but that alone would not suffice. </p>

<p>If the candidate is someone who fits the concept of an early graduate, the reasons can be articulated beyond the academics, for sure. Mentioning the move could be a part of the explanation, but not the main reason. Even my own kid's early graduation statement did not ONLY focus on academic reasons. She definitely had academic reasons (though not truly more compelling than her older sister who had also accelerated in school in similar ways but did not graduate early), but she also explained personal, social, and extracurricular (in her field of study) reasons. So, yes, the reasons can be beyond academic ones and should be, in fact. But the academic ones must be there. But the reasons such as moving, could not alone be enough. There are other solutions than early entrance into college, for a student who moves before senior year. As marite explains, dual enrollment may work, a gap year with some part time college and some other endeavor, etc. Early entrance should be for compelling and strong reasons as colleges will scrutinize if the applicant is ready, prepared, and mature as it is not the "normal" course for a student.</p>

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<p>soozievt,</p>

<p>I tried to PM you, but your box was full, so I sent you an e-mail...</p>

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<p>My PM constantly fills up and so email is better. However, I did not receive your email. :(</p>

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<p>It appears that you once again tried to send a PM. Can you email instead? Thanks.</p>

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<p>hmm... :(
I sent it again... Sorry if you get it twice...</p>

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<p>You misunderstand. I got a notice that you tried to PM me twice. I received no "message" as an email from you. You can either send an email through CC's system by clicking my name and going to the menu under it and choosing "send email." OR You can simply email me at my personal account which is SoozieVT at aol.com or if it is related to counseling services, email me at susant at collegeconfidential.com.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Most colleges require a high school diploma

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Check the Common Data Set filings of various colleges for the refutation of that statement.</p>

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<p>Again ...I think there is some mix up of various situations here. They don't require a diploma or GED if you are homeschooled. Some don't require a diploma or GED if you have gone to regular high school either. But some don't take students who have not received a diploma or GED (NOT speaking of homeschool students in this category). When we inquired at each school on my D's list if they would take an early graduate after junior year, they said, if she has earned a diploma, yes, and that they didn't care how many years she went as long as she had the diploma. There ARE colleges that take students without the diploma or GED early (again, speaking separately from home school applicants, and strictly of students enrolled in high schools), but not all do.</p>

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<p>Examples of some schools I quickly looked up that do require a diploma and some accept a GED and some don't (not counting homeschoolers): Boston University, New York University, Princeton, Bowdoin, Skidmore, Grinnell, Brandeis, Reed, University of Michigan.</p>

<p>Some that don't require a diploma or GED (not referring to homeschoolers): Barnard, Middlebury, Cornell, Smith, Northwestern, Swarthmore, William and Mary, Dartmouth, Yale.</p>

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<p>My son went to MIT from his junior year of HS. His 9th grade year was mediocre (to be generous). Great test scores, national-level competitions. He graduated in June of this year (after 7 semesters). It was a wonderful thing for him; he was bored witless with high school. (CalTech waitlisted him.) MIT does not require an HS diploma. Neither do many other schools. Search for "early entrance" on a college's web site, not "early admission".</p>

<p>At that time, colleges informed us that they did not care if a student had applied previously, they always reevaluated from scratch. Don't know whether that's still (or even generally) true.</p>

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<p>"While newmassdad notes that he observes that it is often parents who look into these things and not the kids..."</p>

<p>This is not my idea. Kid called home and asked after hearing some talk about the early entrance subject at the camp. My first reaction to kid was no. But then after thinking for half of the day, I am looking for your advice here.</p>

<p>Like dmd77 said, kid is bored with high school (slow pace, not challenging,...). Kid has a lot of interaction with older kids at school or at summer camps and has many friends entering colleges this year. Kids can work and participate in activities with younger kids, older kids and college students and emotion seems not a problem.</p>

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<p>I think that credible people who can speak about a student's maturity are the school teachers themselves, in their Letters of Recommendation. They see the kid away from the parents, and see hundreds of kids each year, so have a sense of what reads as "mature" within a school setting. </p>

<p>In some cases, if the Guidance Counselor (GC) knows the kid well, s/he might respond to a parent's inquiry (by telephone or in personal meeting) about the kid's maturity
level. This can help the parent decide whether or not to support such an application.</p>

<p>I will warn you: it does rush the college search process detrimentally. Much less time to research, visit, interview, and so on.</p>