Applying on a gap year

Applying to College
1

So I got rejected from every prestigious university this spring and I want to try applying again. My grades and test scores were fine, but my extracurriculars were complete trash. Though I accomplished some pretty impressive things. I won a few ISEF awards and created a pretty successful startup. So can anyone here give me an idea about my chances and some suggestions for how I can increase them? Ty.

Here’s my info:

  • Middle-class Indian Male from Texas
  • GPA: 3.85 UW, 4.44 W
  • ACT: 34 (35 E, 35 M, 33 R, 32 S)
  • SAT 2: 800 Math II, 790 Physics
  • Took the hardest classes available and a few community college ones

Awards: ISEF Grand Award Winner (won’t give exact details, but it was either a 1st or 2nd place award), 3 ISEF Special Awards, AIME Qualifier, USACO Gold, USAPhO Semifinalist, about a dozen honors/awards/recognition for my startup and innovations (some are very prestigious), two research publications, a few local and generic things

Extracurriculars:

  • Literally nothing during high school except the worthless things like volunteering, NHS, meaningless clubs, ASB, blah blah (lol)
  • Created a startup about a year ago and it already has quite a bit of traction
  • UT summer research program (2x)
  • Published computational biology research (no mentor)
  • Paid intern at an AI startup
  • Lots of cool inventions
  • A few other things

Interesting Fact: I speak 5 languages: English, Hindi, Telugu, Spanish, and Esperanto.

Applying to: every top 20 school plus some safeties like UC Berkeley, UCLA, UT, and GATech

2

Your GPA, scores and ECs would be reasonable for most selective schools so if you received rejections from 100% of the schools you applied to, my guess is that the issue is with your essays or LoRs. You might benefit from getting different LoRs from new activities you’ve been completing in your gap year.

Any possibility you could afford some private college admissions counseling? With those stats and a 100% prior year rejection rate, you would greatly benefit from a good quality counselor to give you tough love, suggestions and expertise about strategy.

3

I agree fully with @milee30

The issue may be how you’re presenting yourself rather than any one factor such as your ECs. The idea of a professional counselor may be a good one, but also might be expensive.

TASK ONE. You will want paint the image of yourself for the adcoms so that you stand out. Yes you have the grades, but they don’t know you as a person. You will want the adcom who read your application to go to the committee and advocate for YOU. That means you have to have a handle for them to grasp. They have to know who you are and they have to like you – and believe that you can thrive AT THAT SCHOOL. not the other dozen schools you applied to.

There are enough applicants with top scores that if they can’t tell who you are beyond those scores, you won’t get accepted. If they cannot see YOU on THAT CAMPUS and contributing nicely, they won’t accept you.

In a past life someone I happen to know was handed a sheaf of applications. Each was a stellar candidate in terms of grades, accomplishments, and the like. The committee couldn’t tell who these people were byond that because the app was so polished on all of them that none of the individual characteristics stood out. The task that that committee was asked to do was to find and circle any information in those applications that would reveal anything about the applicant. The question the committee was attempting to answer was: who is this person? What or who is this person beyond: “I’'ve done this that and the other and I’ve scored this that and the other high grade.”

TASK TWO. The adcoms need to see you AT THAT SCHOOL. See if you can figure out a story for each school that explains to them why you’re interested in them. And what you can do for that school. You get one to two sentences per school. What is it that makes you want to attend (beyond the fact that it’s a top 20). If you’re applying to U of Chicago: “What excites me about U of Chicago is the core classes in addition to my CS class in XYZ. I’m excited about the students who make up the student body there because they have ABC characteristic that I also share” and so on so that the adcom can see you at that school. Some people make a resume (in addition to the Common App) and at the top of the resume put that short paragraph so that the adcoms understand just who you are and why you are applying to that school.

It’s not that hard to do. Brand yourself. Show yoruself at each school you apply to, as best as the application allows. Interviews can help with this also.

4

“It’s not that hard to do. Brand yourself. Show yoruself at each school you apply to, as best as the application allows. Interviews can help with this also.”

Totally agree. This work makes the difference between acceptance and rejection for most people. It’s not hard, but it does take time and attention to detail to do correctly.

If you applied to all T20 colleges last year, that could be a huge part of the problem. Most students do not have the time to do 20+ apps well. Add in the fact that many of the T20s are looking for slightly different things and a shotgun approach can mean your app doesn’t appeal to any of them.

You’d be better off doing some research to figure out which colleges are looking for people just like you. Not what test scores or grades, but what characteristics are they seeking, what does that college value, who do they want to attract and who will fit. When you know what those colleges are looking for, you will know if you’re a fit. Then laser focus on targeting your apps to those colleges that are looking for you. Put your ECs in a particular order, use certain descriptions, make sure you’re getting LoRs from people who will write about those things those targeted colleges are looking for, write essays that show those qualities. See how time consuming that is? You’d be better off taking this targeted approach for 2-5 colleges and really nailing those apps than shotgunning generic apps to 20 or more.

My son was a real life example of how this can work. His grades were much lower than yours, his test scores were similar, ECs were unconventional (few, no consistent theme, but individually of good quality). If all you saw was a bullet point summary of his app, it would be less impressive than yours. But he was accepted to his #1 choice (a top 3 USNWR) because he did a deep dig into figuring out what they were looking for realized it was students like him and then laser focused his app to show he was exactly what they were looking for.

Start doing some research - you will find there are at least a handful of colleges that are looking for you. Focus on applying to those.

5

The UC’s can never be considered safeties, especially for non-residents.
Also, you don’t have the competitive UW GPA for the UC schools. Your GPA, as an OOS student, has to be better than the instate GPA’s, and right now, it is not.

Your only “safety” for the UC’s would be Merced. Any UC, for a non-resident is $65K per year.
You will not receive any funding/scholarships from the State of California, so expect your parents to pay full fees @$65K per year.

If you try the CSU’s, you could be competitive. $40K per year.

6

I’m going to echo the “deep dig” into the school as useful. – this is where the “holisitic” portion of holistic applications comes in. The schools want to know who is joining their existing community, not just a bunch of stats.

You can probably apply to fewer schools if you look deeply at what that school is about and target those you have a true affinity for.

What is the campus culture like? (hypernerdy intellectuals? Sporty preppy? Fratty and smart? No Greek and not a lot of politics, just focusing on the academics, thank you? Peace love and understanding plus really great STEM? etc.)

What are the clubs you can belong to? Which ones do you want to participate in? How else do you plan to contribute to the community?

What departments are you interested in and what classes intrigue you? Is there something else about the campus that you’ve never tried before but would like to? (Maybe at Wesleyan you want to try some of their interesting music ensembles; maybe at Columbia you’re excited to delve into the core, etc.)

7

@milee30 @Dustyfeathers

I agree that a private counselor would be a good investment. It’s fairly affordable for my family (we could probably spend up to $20k), so I’ll look into it. Apps are due in like 3 months so hopefully I’ll find someone by next week. At this point, I still have no idea what my essays will be about and I really need help. My essays and interviews last year weren’t terrible, but looking back, they could have been 10x better. LORs were probably generic since I did nothing stand-out. But now I have the ISEF award and the fairly successful startup, which I believe are my selling points. I tried to make the startup my selling point last year, but it had only been around for like a month so it didn’t really make a great story. Do you guys think this could make a good story?

I also don’t quite get the concept of “fit” really. I mean, aren’t all T-10 schools looking for game-changers? Doesn’t any brand work if you can turn it into a really good story? How exactly would I know what schools want my “brand?” Right now, my brand is just a brown male who wants to do STEM, which is very generic. Even business doesn’t seem to uncommon. We really all do look the same and being unique is close to impossible.

I didn’t apply to too many schools last year; just MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Cornell, USC, Northwestern, Duke, CMU, GATech, UIUC, UC Berkeley, UCLA, and UT (auto-admit). I was (obviously) rejected from MIT, Stanford, Harvard, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, CMU (CS), and UCLA. I got waitlisted at Cornell, which eventually turned into a rejection. I got into Berkeley (regular CS, not EECS tho; was too scared to apply), CMU (ECE), UIUC ©, GATech, and UT.

My GPA was also a tiny bit lower when I was applying (3.83 as opposed to 3.85), but I don’t think it made a single difference.

And also, I will be applying to Uchicago as per the example above. I do have a legacy there (father went there for undergrad).

@“aunt bea” Actually, my UW UC GPA for was 3.77 (since they only use 10-11 grades and exclude some classes) and I still got into Berkeley, so obviously it wasn’t really a problem.

8

I think your opening statement is misleading - “I got rejected from every prestigious university this spring”. That is not true. You were admitted to CMU, UIUC, GATech and UT - all excellent schools. I’m confused why you didn’t matriculate at one of those but instead took a gap year? And why you think you will gain admission to them again - no idea how that works - did you defer admissions? How will you spin what you are doing during the gap year - I would imagine schools are interested in hearing about that.

9

“I also don’t quite get the concept of “fit” really. I mean, aren’t all T-10 schools looking for game-changers? Doesn’t any brand work if you can turn it into a really good story? How exactly would I know what schools want my “brand?” Right now, my brand is just a brown male who wants to do STEM”

OK, this is going to be the game changer for you, but as a STEM guy it may be the hardest concept to wrap your head around. The Cliff Notes version is this - all T10 schools are looking for impressive people, but specifically what the college finds impressive varies.

Instead of explaining it, I’m going to give you some homework based on just three of the schools you are interested in. Go read both the Harvard website and the data released as part of the Asian discrimination lawsuit regarding the actual mechanics of how the Harvard selection process works. By the end of this, can you come up with a sentence describing what type of students Harvard is looking for? List 5 specific attributes Harvard values and is looking for during the admissions round.

Now do this exercise for MIT (no lawsuit data, but MIT and its admissions staff are very open about their process, look for their blogs and letters).

Now do this same thing for UChicago.

This is gonna be an eye-opener for you. Hint: you’ll find that the people accepted to these 3 colleges will have fairly similar surface stats - good GPA, high test scores, varied ECs - but that these colleges are quite obviously valuing and targeting very different individual attributes. You’ll start to realize that some of these schools won’t be a fit for you and perhaps you don’t want to spend time applying. But you’ll find that others are looking for some of the exact awesome traits you have… so those will be your best bets; you’ll know you’re a fit and can show that on your app which will mean you have a much higher chance they’ll recognize you’re The One.

10

" aren’t all T-10 schools looking for game-changers?" Uh maybe. I’m not sure that they have the same definition of “game changer” as you do. That’s where research comes in. How well do you know the schools that you’re applying to?

“Doesn’t any brand work if you can turn it into a really good story?” I’m not sure whether any brand “works” but I know that a good story can really help your cause. So maybe figure out your good story. Believe me even kids that have definite stories and angles don’t think that they do when they begin this process. Everyone feels ordinary or that if they do it then anyone else can, whatever “it” might be.

“How exactly would I know what schools want my “brand?”” Through research and then matching things in their program to things in you that you offer. first you need to know yourself. Who are you?

“Right now, my brand is just a brown male who wants to do STEM.” I have trouble believing that you, living in Texas, could possibly not have a cool story to tell. IT’S TEXAS! Things happen there. You’ve lived a life – in TEXAS!!

If you were my child this is how I’d begin this process. First I would figure out YOU, your brand if you will. Then I’d do the research into each program and then match the two up for the adcoms. Llike: you’re doing this work for them so that you retain control over how they see you. You join up the dots for them.

to figure our your “brand” (seriously this is how I did this for each of my children) – sit down with a pen and paper and WITHOUT EDITING simply list at least 10 things that you could POSSIBLY write about. Don’t edit yet. Your list might include you know 1) that time when I thought my shoes were tied but fell off during my key race 2) that time when mom lost the car – again – at Home Depot. Ths time it was for an unexpected reason and I had to help her. 3) How I taught myself to drive a stick shift/ massive UHaul truck/ tractor/ ; 4) getting that job at mcdonalds that one summer. 5) that time when my dog got sick – like real sick – or so I thought. 6) That first late-night when I went running and I really loved it. 7) playing basketball that saturday when . . … X happened. 8) gardening and that one plant I never can get to grow. 9) swimming in the ocean in X location. 10) perfecting the piped rose when decorating cakes, Etc.

Don’t worry if they arent “the perfect essay topic” or whatever. The exercise is to figure out things that pop into your mind that define you OTHER THAN YOUR GRADES AND ECs.

What you do next is then cross off all but about 2 or three of them. That will help you find your essay topic. One of those will work. Then SHOW don’t tell the story. Instead of “I got a bike and it went click click click down the hill” you show the scene: “Wind tugged my red t-shirt and the click-click-click of the gears filled my ears as I whirred down the hill on my new bike.” In the first the reader is more distant. In the second you make yourself the Main Character and show the MC doing the action of the story. The reader is closer and more involved. It moves them more.

If you write about something personal like that, and do it honestly, the adcom will get to know you and probably will like you. If the adcom likes you, then they are more likely to advocate for you. If they advocate for you, you’re more likely to get in.

Second: Separately from your essay, then develop the two or three sentences about the school, and place that at the top of your resume. Show them that you know what you’re getting into, and you will be an active, thriving member of that community. This can change for each school. For U of Chicago: It’s a nerdy school, lots of hyperintellectual people there, peole interested in super granulated information for information’s sake. and it takes pride in its intellectual rigor and honesty – as recently shown in the public letter about no PC culture or trigger warnings. There’s the core. Students take pride in the truism that fun goes there to die. right? Mention how you’d fit into that culture BEYOND LEGACY. you are you, not your parents. Also then mention the courses, and clubs that you will take part in.

It’s okay if your resume is 2 pages. But not longer. With that bit of extra room, consider writing 1-2 lines explaining the importance of the activity. Lots of people program. Maybe you program because you believe it leads to a better world in some way.

If you do that for each school, then you will get into more schools. I guarantee it. Both: you will stand out as a person. Also: the school will be able to see you on its campus.

11

Every year the classes change and the applicants have higher grades and stats. You can’t use the UC’s as safeties. As long as you are okay with paying $65K per year, apply.

12

Wow. I think you are a solid candidate.

13

Sorry for the late responses. I’ve been quite busy over the past few days. Anyways…

@DCCAWAMIIAIL I didn’t get the CS major at CMU, UIUC, and GATech, only the easy-to-get-into majors like informatics and electronics engineering. I also didn’t get Turing Scholars UT. I was having massive success with my research and startup while I was getting my rejections and I knew I could do much better. Now I have more stand-out factors and I’ve managed to convince myself that I have more than a snowball’s chance in hell.

@milee30

I took a look at Harvard, MIT, and UChicago’s websites. It seems like Harvard wants someone who shows growth and potential (stretching themselves, initiative, etc.), interests and activities (caring about intellectual ideas, genuine passion, etc.), character and personality (wisdom, being a good leader, whether you’re a late bloomer (that one describes me very well!)), and how you’ll contribute to the Harvard community (maturity, being interesting. MIT seems to want someone who cares about making the world a better place and helping others, a risk-taker who’s prepared to fail, intense passion and curiosity in a specific area, a charasmatic and inspiring person (very important), and good time management skills (honestly mine are pretty bad). UChicago seems to be the most arcane and says they want you to be yourself and that no single aspect is prioritized. They seem to want a great critical thinker and intellectual as per their essay prompts (they might be more lenient about my mediocre extracurriculars because of the strong emphasis on intellectual essays). I now feel I have a slightly better idea as to what I’ll write in my supplemental essays. Common app is still torture.

@Dustyfeathers

So you’re saying that my essays don’t have to be a bragfest about my accomplishments? That’s kind of what they were last year (with an emphasis on being a Renaissance man) and I can kind of see why they were so bad. I just don’t feel like my very ordinary suburban life has been exceptional. The most interesting nonacademic thing I could probably write about is my travels during the summer after sophomore year, but I risk coming across as priviledged. I was thinking of writing about being a life-long learned and my variety of interests (like classics), but that still seems to cliche. I was also thinking about writing a humorous memoir about some of my experiences, which seems risky, but I might be able to pull this off. I’m still thinking about it and maybe something interesting will come up.

Also, resumes seem to be optional and not really encouraged. A laundry-list of activities actually seems to be discouraged (for example, MIT only lets you write about 4 ec’s). But it seems that the essays really allow you to demonstrate that you have what the school is looking for.

14

Personal statement is not for regurgitating your resume. It’s for writing a story of some sort about yourself.

Successful essays have been about the ordinary parts of life. Not exceptional things. Just ordinary changes in your life.

Think of it like this. You’re writing something, a story, to a new friend. Your objective is to be so charming and / or interesting that this new friend says: Hey, want to come to my party?

You’re trying to get invited to the party.

With that in mind list 10 stories you could possibly tell that would entertain a new friend. Do not edit the list.

Eliminate the weakest ones until you find your topic.

Write that essay. Have a few people read it over. Send it in.

15

@ThePolygot - You have an awesome background. You must focus on how gap year has significantly changed your candidature, especially if you are re-applying to same schools. You absolutely have to nail the essays. Hire a mentor to look over your essays. Good luck!

16

@Barefooter but I have no leadership and minimal community service.

17

I think your odds of gaining acceptance at schools that already rejected you are low. I also think you need to have true match and safeties on your list. For CS, every single school you applied to last cycle was a reach since you weren’t in state for of the flagships publics (excluding UT). Don’t make the same mistake twice.

18

Creating a startup and growing the business is definitely considered leadership. Think of how your startup is solving problems and making people’s lives better. You have to focus on communicating what you already have and not worry about what you don’t have. Top CS schools will want to know your unique attributes, skills and experiences. Not many applicants would have an immersive experience of founding a company like you. Again, focus on the positives and write terrific essays. I agree with @momofsenior1 that your chances of getting accepted at a school that has already rejected you will be low, unless you demonstrate significantly transformed application.