This discussion was created from comments split from: US student applying to Cambridge - APs, SAT, ACT, and transcript.
My son wants to apply to Cambridge (Trinity College) for maths and physics. He is 2018. GPA is 4.0 unweighted, 1560 SAT (800 math 760 English), 2 APs sophomore year (Stat 5, WHAP 5) 4 this year awaiting results (APUSH, Chem, Calc BC, English) expect at least three 5’s. Does research in astrophysics with a university professor and writing research paper for publication. I would assume he will have the profile to at minimum get an interview. If he is able to get into a Harvard, Princeton, MIT…is Cambridge/Trinity a better option? Any ideas on financial aid for international students? Thanks…
He should consult the website, it will have detailed (and non-negotiable) information about what is required, much more so than you will find on US college websites.
The part about doing research with a professor will make good fodder for the personal statement, but won’t make up for a bad interview etc.
There is basically no financial aid for non-EEA students. If money is an issue the top US colleges would probably be a better option.
Yes, if you can’t finance it yourself, Cambridge is sadly not going to be an option.
No Physics AP?
Though for full-payers, Cambridge would be much cheaper.
As for AP’s, most UK unis only care about junior and senior year AP’s, right?
Cambridge has some financial aid, but realistically not enough to make the difference. Cambridge absolutely requires 5 scores of 5 on APs, and for Physics + Math that will have to include Calc BC + Physics C. Invitation to interview will depend on scores (achieved and predicted for tests that haven’t been taken yet), essay on why physics, LoR and admissions test (info here: http://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/nsaa_specification.pdf).
Be aware that there are some very significant differences between Oxbridge & tippy-top US unis: you only study your subject (no gen eds). It is great for people who really really love their subject, but the part that most people underestimate is just how intense the process is. It’s not a matter of smart enough- both passion and independence matter hugely.
Indeed, 3 years at Oxbridge would probably be akin to studying solely your major (think physics at UChicago or math at Princeton) for 2 years followed by a 1-year masters.
Trinity is where all the mathmos go, so that will be very competitive. Also look at the timing for the STEP papers at Cambridge for math.
Trinity, Cambridge is a very popular college and ranked highly in the Cambridge finals comparison table. If he gets in he will be doing well, but I would recommend still applying because, although I know Oxford better, I believe Cambridge has something similar to the Oxford pooling system (eg you apply to one college, they think you are good enough for Oxford but probably can’t take you because of the amount of applicants they’ve got, so you interview at another college. Sometimes several other colleges). As to Cambridge or the US, it is really down to whether he is happy with concentrating on one or two subjects intensively, or prefers the liberal arts approach, with a core curriculum in many cases (not all; I believe Brown still doesn’t have one). He will also have his own room at Cambridge (this is typical in the UK) and in most colleges at Oxford or Cambridge you can live in subsidized college accommodation for your whole course if you want to (not quite all, so check if this is important to you).
He needs 5 5s in relevant subjects, presumably math, science, statistics, and computer science, including BC Calculus and Physics C. It probably helps to have more than 5 5s and 800 or close on math and physics SAT IIs.
I know someone middle class from an English factory town who has a BS/MS in maths from Trinity College, Cambridge.He said a lot of the math he studied was mathematical physics, and they were oriented towards that going back to Newton. I would think Cambridge would be great for maths and physics.
He also said that Trinity College had a huge number of Nobel Prize winners and Prince Charles went there. However, he said he leaves the college off his resume, as it confuses people in the US, who think he went to Trinity College, CT or something. It may be the most prestigious college at Oxbridge. I am not sure if Cambridge will accept you at a lower college than the one you applied to as much as Oxford. An average college is sort of like Cornell and Trinity more like MIT. I would only recommend applying to Trinity if you expect to get into top US schools and only want to go to Cambridge if it is Trinity.
Yes, Trinity is the most prestigious college for math (and to a slightly lesser extent for natural sciences). Its also the richest college by some margin (so they have slightly better accommodation). But you’d get just as good an education at the other colleges because lectures are held centrally by the math departments (pure and applied are separate) and supervisions (tutorials) can be done by fellows or PhD students in other colleges if the college you are at doesn’t have a specialist in that subject (e.g. once you get to the third year). Note that any physics is applied math, not practical physics, which is a separate subject (natural sciences) and is combined with chemistry/biology. If you want single subject physics then Oxford rather than Cambridge is the usual choice in the UK.
My best advice in terms of a reason to choose Trinity specifically is if you get onto the US International Mathematical Olympiad team (or are a finalist). Trinity is particularly keen on the IMO - they host the British team prep and quite a number of fellows competed in the IMO in high school. That may not be viable for most people but it does give you some insight into the quality of people there (as another example, one of the fellows, Tim Gowers, won a Fields Medal).
But don’t do Cambridge (especially Trinity) math if you are easily intimidated. The vast range in ability even within those admitted is very obvious very quickly, and there is a very long tail at the top. Remember also that most UK students will have just done math, further math and physics for A levels, so have spent the last 2 years of high school doing virtually nothing else but math (which is great if you don’t like essay writing - you won’t write a single essay doing math at Cambridge either). So they have deep experience, well beyond Calculus BC for example, and there are no easy introductory courses (or indeed anything other than math) at the start of the first year.
The best illustration of the range of ability and intimidating style is the final exams which are ~100% of the course grades and consist of four 3 hour exams over 2 consecutive days at the end of the year. To pass you need to answer 3 questions correctly (in total over the 4 papers). To get a first you need to answer 13 questions correctly. The top people answer about 35 questions correctly.