Applying to Caribbean medical school at 19?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>So, I'm a freshman in college. Currently I'm 17, I'll turn 18 in the summer. I brought in 30 semester hours from dual-enrollment (3.9 GPA). Currently I attend Emory University and I'm doing pretty well this semester (looking like a 3.8-3.9 semester).</p>

<p>I'm looking at applying to AUA medical school at the end of my sophomore year. AUA requires 90 semester hours (senior status) to apply. By the end of my sophomore year I'll have 97 semester hours (but I'll still have 2 years of coursework to finish up my chemistry degree). I'll have all the premed courses completed by this time (although I'll still need a year of p. chem and a year of biochem to graduate). AUA is apparently a top Carribean medical school, and fortunately they do not require the MCAT--I won't screw myself over taking the MCAT early by applying.</p>

<p>I want to just go ahead and go off to medical school because I truly don't want to work myself to tears by taking courses that are irrelevant to my career. I know that we should get a "liberal education," but I feel like I've already done that. I've already completed all the GER's to graduate with a bachelors. Why not more? Because nurses, engineers, and every other undergraduate major gets to spend the rest of their time concentrating on what they love. Sorry, but as interesting as an extra philosophy class may sound, I don't want to take it. Secondly, college is expensive. Why put myself in more debt to take classes that have no application to my career besides the occasional, "Hey, that scene was shot with 32mm gauge film at a high angle with three-point lighting!" to a patient who has a passion for the subject. </p>

<p>As for college being fun. Yeah, right. I'm pre-med. Maybe another major though. Being in upper-level courses, practically all of my friends are sophomore/junior status currently. So if I do go off to medical school, I'll be leaving with my friends. Lastly, maturity wise, I think after working on an ambulance and having patients die in my hands, having friends with multitudes of issues, and the vast array of personal problems I've had throughout my life, I'm pretty mature. It's one of the reasons I only befriend people who are well older than I am. </p>

<p>I don't know, anyone have a counter-argument on why I should wait?</p>

2

<p>I am not interested in providing detailed counter arguments. But my gut feeling: If you can be successful as a premed (as evidenced by the fact that your GPA is 3.8-3.9) and get into a US-based medical school, why would you want to “sell yourself short” by going to an overseas medical school, unless you are really looking into practicing there instead of in US? (or, unless you are scared by taking, say, p-chem, due to the lack of higher-level math preparations or your p-chem professor is just too demanding so you want to get around that?)</p>

3

<p>Also, I do not care if I go to a Caribbean medical school over an American. I truly do not have the time nor the energy to care if people look down at me for going to an out-of-country medical school. Especially knowing that I have a relatively okay chance of getting into an American school (the average GPA for AA’s is a 3.46 for American med schools–I’m well above that).</p>

4

<p>MCAT2,</p>

<p>I can major in anything. If I was scared of p-chem, I’d just switch my major. I’m fairly good in biology (probably better than chemistry–actually), and if I chose to get a BA in Biology, no math would be required. In reality, if I did a biology degree rather than a chemistry, I could probably finish up sooner. </p>

<p>I truly don’t understand how I’ll be “selling myself short” by not going to an American school? At the end of the day, won’t I end up with the same degree, the same title, and the same US licensure?</p>

5

<p>I am a parent of a premed who has just completed the premed journey so I do not have the first-hand knowledge.</p>

<p>I myself was graduated from a college out of US almost a generation ago. Even if a college is top rated, as long as it is not based in US, it is often not highly regarded by the mainstream here. There are few exceptions, but medicine may not be one of them.</p>

<p>This is just my subjective opinion only, of course. So read it with a grain of salt.</p>

6

<p>is this serious? US MD and DO school enrollment growth is greatly outpacing residency growth and IMGs’ already crazy competition for residencies will only worsen. </p>

<p>AUA is no “top” caribbean school, the big 4 are SGU, Ross, Saba, and AUC. Except for SGU, caribbean schools have zero admission standards, and horrible attrition rates. </p>

<p>Complete your degree and aim for US MD schools, and DO if that does not work out.</p>

7

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<p>The USMLE pass rate for FMGs is far below that of US med school grads. In addition to that, residency placement in ANY selective specialty is extremely difficult to impossible now-unless you want to be somewhere like Youngstown, Ohio.</p>

<p>With US Med school enrollments/graduates growing in number and the potential reduction of internship funding that many are worried about looming, the number of total available spots for everyone could be be dramatically reduced making the chances for FMGs to get a US residency spot even more difficult than it is now-even for areas like family practice and internal medicine.</p>

<p>There are no shortcuts to becoming a Doctor.</p>

8

<p>So, would you apply to AUA before graduation, and if you’re accepted, would you attend before you complete your bachelor’s? (IDK if this changes anything–just curious)</p>

<p>Sounds like you’re having a frustrating experience at Emory, which (in my experience) is common among students at many schools and doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t belong at Emory. Seems like problems with friends, family, or school can really just wear you down, especially at this time of the year when finals are looming and family/friend drama is unfortunately high because of the holidays. Perhaps you’re ascribing these feelings of frustration to Emory itself, which makes it logical that the solution would be to leave Emory and start med school right away.</p>

<p>I think before you decide to apply to AUA, you should consult with someone you respect, like a mentor (I’ve found professors I like and physicians I shadowed to be mentors, so maybe you could start there if you haven’t already identified one). I bet they’ll have additional insight into you and your academic preparation that might help you make the right decision for you.</p>

<p>Why would you be selling yourself short? If you go to Emory, chances are you were a competitive high school student with high ACT/SAT scores–perhaps predicting success on other big tests, like the MCAT. If you’re excelling in your classes with a 3.8/3.9, then you’ll almost certainly have the academic preparation to succeed in medical school if you stay the course. Sounds like you’ve had quite a range of experiences too. All of this leads me to believe you have the potential to be a strong applicant to American MD and DO schools. You would be selling yourself short by going to a Caribbean medical school because it’s a well-known fact that graduates of Caribbean medical schools have a significantly tougher time passing boards and getting into residencies, which you must do if you want to practice in the US. Even though you claim your academic pedigree is meaningless to you, that’s certainly not the case for your future employers, who seem to vastly prefer US grads to foreign grads–and if you can’t get hired somewhere you want to work, in a field you wish to be a part of, why bother in the first place? </p>

<p>By throwing in the towel at Emory and going to school in the Caribbean, you’re essentially cheating yourself out of the career you would have found if you had graduated from a US MD or DO school. Assuming you graduate from med school when you’re…24?..and complete residency before you’re 30, you might have another 35-40 years to practice. Why unnecessarily limit your career potential? There will be plenty of time to “get your hands dirty” with medicine (like your nursing and engineering friends are doing now), even if it doesn’t seem fair that they get to do all the cool practical stuff now and you have to wait until med school.</p>

<p>My suggestion is to find a way to make Emory work, stick it out, and go to med school here. Save the Caribbean options for a backup plan if US MD and DO schools don’t work out. I think your handle says it all–AUA is a far cry from Baylor Med–and it seems like it’s way too early to abandon those Baylor Med 2019 dreams.</p>

9

<p>Even if I do well on the USMLE (performing in the upper percentiles), will I still have a low chance of getting into residency? I’m slightly confused. Is it the low scores on the USMLE or just the simple fact that these students are coming from an out-of-country medical school. If it’s the latter, I can understand the argument; however, I don’t believe that the schools average performance will necessarily equate to mine–seeing these students had trouble with the sciences even in undergrad. I don’t know though.</p>

<p>Also, there are no issues here at Emory. I love it here. Everything about it. My dream is to attend BCM or Emory SOM (if I stay). I’m just thinking logically. I have enough college credit to be classified as a sophomore currently. At the end of my second year at Emory, I’ll have senior status. I could finish up my degree, if I get a degree in let’s say biology, thus being eligible for an American medical school. However, why does it matter if I finish? There is no way an American medical school will accept me at 20, no matter what GPA/MCAT. The average age for medical school is 26, correct? I’m far below that. </p>

<p>I just don’t want to waste my time, up until 2AM consistently, doing work towards a degree that is virtually pointless. Once I’m a doctor, what is the significance of my chemistry degree? None. It’s like, we waste all of this money and time on a degree that does nothing for our career. That’s my only issue. Not the school, not the course load (minus the fact that the prestige of my education means nothing to admissions), and certainly not the people.</p>

10

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<p>I agree with you that the content of your courses in undergrad is largely meaningless to med school. For many people (perhaps not you, but certainly me), undergrad is much more than a means (=classes) to an end (=job). I’m sure you’ve realized that there’s a lot more to college than your courses, and if you haven’t, I imagine you’re focusing too much on school work and not enough on growing up. (Which isn’t to say you’re immature–just to say that a lot more growing up happens during college.) There’s a lot more to college than technical preparation for your career, and it looks like you have the luxury to explore all those elements given your advanced standing.</p>

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<p>That’s a pretty compelling reason to stay! And a very compelling reason not to go to AUA, as it’s your dream to go somewhere else and that dream seems attainable at this point.</p>

<p>If you love your school, classes, and friends…you’re crazy to leave undergrad in favor of med school. Med school’s awesome, don’t get me wrong, but there’s something altogether different that’s awesome about undergrad (and unfortunately, you probably won’t realize how great undergrad can be until you’re finished with it!)</p>

11

<p>FMGs regardless of USMLE scores already have a significant disadvantage when applying to US residencies especially competitive ones. Most FMGs end up taking family practice and internal medicine spots in undesirable locations (hence my Youngstown, Ohio comment) IF they match at all.</p>

<p>There is a strong possibility that the total number of residencies offered may be reduced significantly in the next 3-5 years due to federal funding cuts. As it is now, the federal government provides approx $100,000 per resident per year to fund their graduate education, from which approx $50K goes to the residents for salaries with the programs keeping some part of the balance to cover costs, insurance etc. </p>

<p>With the current budget crisis, it is feared that residency spots on the whole could be reduced by as much as 5,000 spots per year. With the current growth in numbers of US med school grads the number of residency spots being filled by FMGs (because US grads don’t want them) will be reduced as it is. If the number of residency spots are reduced on top of the growth in number of US grads, there will be far fewer, if any, spots for FMGs.</p>

<p>In my honest opinion, you are playing with fire. Finish up at Emory, go the traditional route and at least put the odds more on your side for a residency position. The alternative is practicing medicine in the Caribbean or a third world country which would not seem to be a good option to me.</p>

12

<p>USMLERx (or whoever the people who made First Aid are) did a webinar recently where they showed the percentage of students matching into their top choice residency based on USMLE step 1 score. Even at the highest percentiles there was still a difference between the foreign and US medical schools, and it only got larger as the scores went down.</p>

<p>I certainly don’t think 2 years of tuition is worth severely limiting your chances at residency spots. What about graduating early and spending time working/volunteering before medical school if you’re so itching to get out of Emory/save money?</p>

13

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<p>Like you, I entered college with AP credit (55 hours). After just 3 semesters I will have 106 credits and academic “senior” standing. It does have it’s perks. (e.g. I get to register very early) I plan to stay here the full 4 years and pick up a second degree and a minor in addition to my premed requirements. Maybe you should also consider this?</p>

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<p>Why finish? Well, the 90 hour min. requirement at AUA is nothing special. Many American MSs have the very same min. requirement. These are necessary conditions for being admitted but are not sufficient. Just as at American schools they will take the applicants with the degrees if they can. Where would that leave you? And why so negative on being accepted to an American school? I will be applying in the summer of 2013 right after my 19th birthday and I am VERY confident that I will be accepted. What does an “average age” have to do with anything?</p>

14

<p>There are stats of bad experiences with the Caribbean, but my anecdotal experience in a few cases has been positive. Apparently there are programs where you do two years there and then finish your med schooling here, like in NY.</p>

15

<p>^ That is the case with all of the Big 3 (maybe with the Big 4?) - its even less than 2 years, something like 18 months on the island, then the rest here in the US in various places. </p>

<p>But here’s the data from the horses mouth, as it were:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2011.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Even for the less competitive residencies, the FMGs are at a significant disadvantage</p>

16

<p>Well, I’ll apply for the fun of it and keep it as a back-up in case something terrible happens.</p>

17

<p>Haha, that does sound like fun. Hopefully you’ll get a vacation along with an interview!</p>

<p>If you apply a year before you’d apply to US schools, and are accepted, would you then defer your acceptance in order to give US schools a shot? If that’s the plan, you might want to check into the deferral policy at AUA. As I understand it, deferral policies vary considerably from each other and among different schools. Just a thought.</p>

18

<p>Do not apply to AUA prior to applying to MD schools. You are required to state on the AMCAS application if you have applied to and/or been accepted to medical schools in the past. You could very well be creating a self fulfilling prophecy by applying to AUA. Don’t go Caribbean, just graduate early if you are in such a rush. Med schools definitely do accept students under 21, I had a few classmates that were as young as 19 actually. Schools cannot discriminate based on age, only on maturity. If you are mature then no problem there. A large chunk (~1/3) of residencies do not, as part of their policy, even LOOK at residency applications from FMGs. There are negatives about going to the Caribbean that simply cannot be explained by poor student quality. I’ll be more blunt than the others of this forum and tell you that you would be incredibly foolish to go AUA if you don’t have to. There is nothing logical about being too impatient to wait for a shot at US MD/DO.</p>

19

<p>You did ask for counter-arguments. So with that in mind, I would have to agree to some of the comments here as far as US vs Caribbean schools. ie, the statistics show that more American grads have matched when compared to foreign grads. Residencies favor American grads compared to foreign grads.</p>

<p>But, I went to a caribbean medical school so I did want to share my perspective.</p>

<p>There are a lot of varying factors when it comes to being selected for a residency. Which medical school you go to is just one of the factors. Going to a carib school essentially limits the quantity of places you can apply for residency. For the ones you CAN apply to, your actions in medical school will determine your competitiveness against the rest of the applicants. ie scores on 3-4 board exams, GPA, clinical rotation performance grades, letters of recommendation, interview skills, schmoozing, etc. There are many FMG’s who are specialists. With that said, primary care has a shortage of physicians.</p>

<p>If after all the pros/cons/risks/benefits analysis is done and you still want to go to a caribbean medical school over a US med school, my advice is to do a lot of research. Consider costs, financial aid, US clinical experience, and whether the school has limitations with your future licensing needs. Use [ValueMD[/url</a>] and [url=&lt;a href=“http://CompareCaribbeanMedicalSchools.com%5DCompare”&gt;http://CompareCaribbeanMedicalSchools.com]Compare</a> Caribbean Medical Schools](<a href=“http://ValueMD.com%5DValueMD%5B/url”>http://ValueMD.com). </p>

<p>Good luck and don’t hesitate to [ask</a> me any questions](<a href=“http://thuchuynh.com%5Dask”>http://thuchuynh.com).</p>

20

<p>"As for college being fun. Yeah, right. I’m pre-med. "</p>

<p>-Looking like you are missing a lot in your life. College is 4 years (or whatever shorter period) of your life. When these years are gone, you are not going to get them back. However, if this is your goal, go ahead and apply to whatever, whenever. Many many pre-meds do have fun and live real life and participate in everything that they want, they do not restrict themselves, they do not focus too much on medicine. BTW, most American Med. Schools are looking for this type of applicants, people who have developed as human beings taking advantages of all kind of opportunities available in UG. Taking care of “problem side” of life is not all. Others find the ways to enjoy their life, every day, every week no matter what they do. It is important to you as a person.<br>
However, if you focus only on Med. School, go ahead and apply to whatever, whenever. I am not sure why are you asking if you already know the answer. To be where you personally want to be is also very important. So, pursue it, do not listen to us here, we have different situations, goals, personalities. Most are not as focused, they want to pursue many interests, they cannot enjoy themselves if they deprive themselves. BTW, pursuing various interests still continues at Med. School, they encourage it. You just have to choose more carefully since there is much less time for non-academic activities at Med. School.</p>