Most Caribbean schools over-admit to ensure profit. The schools create a bottle neck before licensing exams and have so many internal roadblocks to ensure many people do not finish and only people almost guaranteed to do well on licensing exams actually take them. Caribbean schools pay American clinics and hospitals to have a specific amount of students rotate in M3 and M4 so everyone cannot progress and attrition is necessary. Even after all this manipulation, many people either don’t match or match to the least competitive specialties in the least desirable areas in the US after applying to very many programs. Additionally, Caribbean schools tend to be extremely expensive.
If you really want to be a doctor, you should be willing to take this chance. I say this in general; my statement is not commenting on discussion of Caribbean schools.
3 Likes
Ok. So you’ve made that call while you really want this, but not at that expense.
How about DO.? @DramaMama2021 shared a great story a few messages back.
My point is - how bad do you want it ? That will dictate how far down the rabbit hole you are willing to go……hence I mentioned the Caribbean. I know people don’t believe in it and clearly you’ve studied it. But if you really want something then how badly do you want it ?
If others aren’t giving you the chance, you have to change the strategy.
There was recently a student looking at Nova SE for DO but decided it wasn’t at the level they wanted. They made a choice to pursue something else.
You have to make a choice. It may be a choice that you don’t like but it may be the only way to pursue your goal.
Is that worth it to you ?
That’s what I’m trying to get at.
It still may not work but maybe you have better odds.
It is not necessary to do everything “perfectly” in your early 20’s in order to go to medical school. I know somebody who was just accepted at the age of 40, with 3 kids. My relative began at 28 when he realized he did not want to teach. He was an education major.
Plenty of people take multiple gap years to volunteer, join the Peace Corp, TFA etc before applying.
While I am no expert, it seems to me that you do not have the long term experiences that are necessary in order to be a competitive applicant.
Acceptance into a PhD program is tough, but it’s also tough being there if your heart is elsewhere. These programs can be emotionally draining.
If you want medical school, you need to do what it takes to get there. You can also go for a different health care degree if patient care is really what you want.
If you decide to complete your PhD, that’s fine. I would do it for the right reasons.
3 Likes
I am going to push back against the HBCU narrative as that has not been the experience that my family has observed. I have a 2022 Howard University Summa Cum Laude grad and another student who is a week away from being a senior at Howard. There are a ton of my HU22 grads friends who are announcing their Medical school acceptances right now and they are getting accepted into medical schools across the country. The vast majority of these students were top students at Howard with similar to higher MCAT scores than yours and also had plenty of medical ECs (shadowing, research, patient care, etc. while a vast majority have done internships/jobs in the medical field during this gap year). A good portion of these friends have gone to top medical school summer programs (some of these programs reserve spots for HBCU students) every year.
Medical school acceptances are very competitive and are only getting more competitive each year. I am glad that you are looking for another way to reach your goal, but watching you blame your HBCU institutions versus watching you take no responsibility for some of your undergrad GPA challenges/possible weaknesses in your ECs is possibly coming through in your interviews/essays.
My recent HU graduate is now finishing up year 1 in a top 15 Biochemistry graduate program and my kid has enjoyed the classes (4.0 GPA) and research at a school with a very small African-American grad student population (under 3%). But it has not been easy. It is tough to get a Biochemistry PhD when you have a different goal (eventually doing a MD). But it is possible. But also consider what some of the most knowledgeable posters on CC have advised. I personally hope that you can find an avenue with a shorter time frame than 5+ years that gets you into medical school. I am rooting for you and congratulations in advance (because I believe you are going to find a way to get to medical school).
5 Likes
Being older and more desperate won’t get you accepted to medical school.
@Biochem2MD I’ve asked this at least three previous times…and I’m doing it for the last time. If your goal is to provide direct patient care…have you at least looked into alternate routes to providing patient care (you can look at my above posts).
If your goal isn’t providing direct patient care…what is it!
I’m assuming this part of this comment applies to off shore medical schools. I say that because DO schools have a very good record of both educating and placing residents. You need to consider adding DO schools if you choose to apply again.
2 Likes
And you need patient facing direct contact experience. Have you considered getting a CNA license and working as a CNA for a year instead of doing a PhD?
3 Likes
And lastly…if you want to be a doctor, you need to want to be a doctor where it’s needed the most…and in specialties that are also needed which right now is primary care. Is this your goal…because if you want to go to medical school of any kind…this should be your goal.
2 Likes
I’m hearing all the advice and it’s all good. My question is this: if I forgo doing the PhD, what should I be doing now before I reapply (i.e. specific activities and how long)? In addition, given my circumstance, what MCAT score should I shoot for to be satisfied? I’m interested in patient care and my comment about “least competitive specialties” was misconstrued. Essentially I was saying Caribbean schools eliminate a lot of choice.
Here is what I would do…
-
Explore other options for providing patient care like nurse to APRN.
-
Get a CNA certification and work doing direct patient care…for a year at least.
-
Find someplace or someone who can do mock interviews with you.
-
Look at your long term career goals and really determine whether the only thing you want is doctor.
-
I do not know where you applied to medical schools the first two times…but you need to review that list very carefully.
4 Likes
With all due respect, I’ve put too much effort, time and money into this process to pursue a mid level position. That’d be a lateral move at best. I literally did an SMP with an almost perfect GPA. Why should I settle? That’s the conundrum. Whatever I’m doing, I need to be challenged and have a good degree of autonomy. That’s why I’m debating between this and a PhD.
1 Like
Best of luck!
Google “sunk cost fallacy” and then come back to us.
4 Likes
With all due respect, how is this helpful? I know I have the ability to practice medicine. It’s not wholly my fault the barrier to entry is absurd. I can’t control everything. Why don’t you give up on everything you desire? See how unhelpful that statement becomes?
You need direct patient experience, volunteering with underserved populations, shadowing, etc. Your volunteering experiences need to be long term (not a month or two).
This is not a “lateral” move. This is doing what it takes to be a competitive applicant, and it might take you 2 years to get there.
3 Likes
That’s nonsensical. Thanks for all the “help” on this forum. I’m pursuing a PhD. I’m not doing something for 1-2 years to appease someone who still will find some kind of fault. I’m an adult and this posturing is more appropriate for a college kid. I’m done.
I have to say (gently) that I am not hearing a passion for helping people in your posts. Do you have that? Physicians need that. Physicians have to want to serve, to be servants of humans/humanity.
How many hours do you have now of direct patient facing experience? Not shadowing. Not research. Actual time spent with and treating patients? That’s where you should prioritize your time.
You will spend let’s say 12,000 hours over the next 6 years on a PhD and zero hours on working with patients. That does not seem like it would result in a winning med school app. Having several thousand patient hours gained over the next year or so could result in a stronger med school app, or PA app (should you perhaps consider that route, which could be a good alternative).
You can get patient facing experience in many ways. CRNA as suggested above. EMT. Rural and other healthcare jobs treating patients thru Americorps/PeaceCorps/TFA as suggested by wayoutwestmom. Re-read everything wayoutwestmom wrote and if you have more questions ask her. People pay med school consultants thousands of dollars for advice like hers. If you don’t want to listen to what you are hearing on this thread, please hire a top notch med school counselor.
3 Likes
You stated that you want to attend medical school. I am letting you know what it takes to get there, generally speaking.