Applying to Phd programs

Graduate School
1

<p>My D is only an undergrad freshman this fall,but I am beginning to become curious about how to learn about what will follow her 4 yrs. So I thought I'd ask a few questions here to get started.</p>

<p>1) How can I find out stats and info on which subjects/depts in ivy grad schools have the most openings to applicants for current years( I know this may change some in the next 4 yrs but just to get some idea)</p>

<p>2)My d is considering the following subjects as of now but she is really not sure yet if she will commit to one of these or perhaps a different ave as she progresses through her undergrad yrs.: psychology,classics(she has not started Greek or Latin Languages yet but will if this is what she wants),history, english,and her passion ...art, particularly photography. Even though she loves her art she does not really want to make a career w/ it, but wants to continue to grow and develop as an artist and is open to eventually meshing it w/ other fields if that is where things take her, but she wants a traditional college education first.</p>

<p>3) What are the GRE scores in comparison w/ SAT scores? Another words what are the ranges, are they paralell to SAT scores or different?</p>

<p>4)Do most phd program admissions want applicants straight from undergrad or some work experience first, is it advantagous to earn a MA before applying or I have read the trend seems to be to enter right out of undergrad rather than earn a MA?</p>

<p>5)What tips do you have for my D and myself in preparation for grad school?</p>

<p>6)She will be attending Trinity College. I believe ivy grads are familiar w/ graduates from this school, at least this is what I've read. Any Trinity students, parents or alumni care to share thier knowledge of how Trinity helped them apply and get into ivy Phd programs/or programs in schools that excel in thier fields?</p>

<p>7)Can you breakdown kind of a timeframe or timeline of what she should do and when? </p>

<p>8) Good books,websites or references you used?</p>

<p>Thank you</p>

2

<p>If you go to department websites at graduate schools, they often have statistics for how many applicants applied, and how many got in. But although the competition is worse in some fields than others, your daughter shouldn't make a choice based on her chances. A Ph.D. program is a HUGE commitment, and if she should only apply to such a program if she knows exactly what she wants to study, and she's committed to researching that topic for years of her life. These days, almost every field is insanely competitive, especially for ivy grad schools. You need a high GPA, high GRE scores, and even then there is a lot of random luck involved.</p>

<p>I did worse on the GRE than on the SAT -- but it was because when I took the SAT, I had been studying math every day in high school. I didn't take a single math class in college, and it was impossible to relearn everything in the few weeks that I spent studying. So my math score was pretty bad. (I still got into grad school, but I didn't get as many offers as I might have with higher scores.)</p>

<p>Right now, my advice is to not pressure her about going to graduate school. It's not necessarily the best way to pursue the subjects she is interested in. A lot of the fields you mentioned are research intensive -- if her passion turns out to be research, then graduate school may be for her. But it's way too early for her to be sure. If you start talking to her about GRE prep now, she might go through college thinking that you expect her to go to graduate school. It should be her decision, and she should feel free to choose another path.</p>

<p>If she does eventually decide to go to graduate school, her faculty advisors will be the best resource for any of these questions. If she is still considering grad school by her second or third year, they can help her to prepare. It's tremendously important to have relationships with faculty -- for letters, for undergrad research, for guidance on where to apply. If she makes an effort to get to know her professors during her first 2-3 years, she will have support when she needs it.</p>

<p>That's probably the best thing she could do right now -- She should keep her options open, but she should make sure that if she ever needs letters from faculty (for grad school, for internships, for whatever) they will remember her as a good student, and they will want to help her.</p>

3

<p>PhD programs vary drastically depending on the discipline. False Alarm is entirely right: a PhD is an absolutely huge commitment, and it does not make a lot of sense to make a decision to get a PhD, without having a pretty good idea of what you want to get the PhD in. The prospective subjects you've listed are multifarious - being a classics PhD student is very different from being a psychology PhD student. Lul, clearly your daughter has academic talent to be going to a place like Trinity; but, I think it is simply to early to speculate about her teaching college classes before she even sets foot in one. </p>

<p>As FA says, make sure she gets good grades and forms relationships with her professors if you both think she might be cut out for the academic life. Apart from that, I would just wait and see, and let your daughter do her own research about PhD's if she still interested in three or four years. After all, if she cannot find the initiative tp research on PhD programs, she is probably ill-fated to do research in a PhD program.</p>

4

<p>Explicitly, it's totally fine to wait until the end of junior year and the summer before senior year to begin researching graduate programs in earnest; most students don't take the GRE until that summer or senior fall.</p>

<p>The GRE is on the same scale as the old SAT (verbal and math each out of 800), but most people get lower scores because the pool of graduate-school bound students is understandably more competitive than the pool of college-bound students.</p>

5

<p>Yes, I was in school myself only a few yrs ago and I know the importance of establishing relationships w/ professors, they are wealth of moral support and information and are usually very eager to help motivated students.</p>

<p>I was inquiring about grad schools early not because I am pressuring my D at all. But because she herself is a motivated student and I want to stay abreast of all the opportunities that may be available to her. She has already told me that she is considering a Phd in one of the previously mentioned subjects, she also is considering a MA program in art therapy( She has already picked out the one @ NYU). </p>

<p>She is mature enough to know that she has to keep her options open and be flexible enough to change her expectations as she progresses through the next 4 yrs to fit whatever interests she finds herself pulled to and the level of academic grades she earns.</p>

<p>In no way have I pressured her, I am simply a mom who wants to support her D in her education and be informed about any opportunities available to her when and if she expresses an interest in them. She expressed an interest in Phd programs and neither of us know alot about them yet. So the two of us are learning together over these next 4 yrs and will share what each other learns. I don't see that as pressure I see that as help. It is she who asked about learning more and where to get started. That is why I am here. I have been using CC as a tool for info this whole last year to understand the steps to apply to college from HS and now I will use it to understand the steps to graduate school. My understanding is that this is the purpose of this forum. I have enjoyed conversing w/ others on these forums and have both helped others and been helped by many in college related areas. Thank you everyone.</p>

<p>I know what you mean by it not making sense to choose a Phd program according to who has the most openings but let's face it.......I looked at Yale and UPenn clinical psych websites...Yale takes 4 and Upenn takes 15-20 students ayear out of 300 something canidates. Psych sounds like it is going to be rough to pursue. That is why I then wanted to look at other subjects she enjoys but did not know which schools to look at. I thought I would start at the ivies and any other schools that would excel in these fields. I just did not know which ivies and schools are best for these subjects. </p>

<p>Does anyone know?</p>

6

<p>for psych phd programs, by far the number one factor that admissions committees are looking for is a research match with one of the faculty. someone could be a fabulous applicant (i.e. highest grades/gre scores, professional publications/presentions, extensive research experience, clinical experience), but if they do not match exactly with a professor in terms of research interests, they will not get in.</p>

7

<p>It unsettles me slightly that you asked about Ivies and not "the best programs for...(insert academic interest here)." Grad school is far more about fit than undergrad, and an Ivy isn't necessarily the only place for any particular student (even the best).</p>

<p>There's also really no way to keep abreast of things until her junior year, since faculty at institutions change so much. I'm entering my MA and will start my PhD in 3 years, and I still don't feel I can adequately evaluate a program since the professor I like know may be elsewhere or have changed interests in that time period.</p>

<p>Your D needs to take her first 2 years of college to really explore. mature or not, we're exposed to far more in college then ever possible in high school. Even if she doesn't change basic interests, her focus may change, which would make all ground work up to that point worthless.</p>

8

<p>It sounds like your daughter has a lot of varied interests--good for her. Some things to keep in mind:</p>

<p>*While magazines like US News and World Report do publish rankings of graduate programs, and it's certainly true that that people in academia read them, the difference in quality between a program ranked third and one ranked seventh is often nonexistent. Don't be afraid to look outside of the usual suspects--sometimes relatively unheralded schools can have great programs in one particular field. (The University of Missouri has a fabulous journalism program, for instance.)</p>

<p>*That said, if your daughter is ultimately interested in getting a tenure-track academic job, the quality and prestige of the program she attends will be very important when she is on the academic job market. Professorships are highly desirable jobs, and departments get hundred and sometimes even thousands of applications for a single opening, and the quality of the graduate program that an applicant attended will almost always be the first consideration in winnowing the pile. An applicant with a PhD from Stanford or Columbia or Berkeley will get a closer look than one with a PhD from a less prestigious school, unless that particular program is stellar.</p>

<p>*Because of the multifarious nature of PhD programs, you have to research each field specifically--there is no single database that will give you all of the statistics you're after. Even the websites of specific departments can be frustratingly vague about the admissions/acceptance process. Once your daughter decides on a field, the easiest and most helpful thing for her to do is to talk with her professors and ask them which programs they would recommend, and then begin researching from there. </p>

<p>*Be prepared for rejection, much more so than during the college admissions process. Top PhD programs are extraordinarily selective, with admissions rates in the 2-5% range. To give you some perspective, think about this: You said that your daughter is interested in English, which is a popular major and a popular field of study at the graduate level. The top English programs, in no particular order, are Columbia, Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, Stanford, Chicago, Cornell, etc.--the usual suspects. Columbia's English department receives between 650 and 1000 applications a year (depending on the economy), and their entering class in autumn 2005 was 12 people. This means that at the very most they admitted 30 people, which means that their acceptance rate was no higher than 4.6%. In reality, it was probably even lower, maybe 3.5%. The moral of the story is that top graduate programs are extremely particular about who they admit, as they are looking at hundreds of applications from people with 4.0 averages and high GRE scores. Often acceptance can boil down to extremely subjective criteria, and applicants might get accepted to a school that is more prestigious than one that rejected them. Extremely well-qualified applicants are turned away all the time, so it's important to remember not to set your hopes on one particular program above all others.</p>

<p>*Finally, as several other have noted, a PhD is an intense committment, one that carries with it all kinds of other decisions and sacrifices. Many graduate programs are now seeing students take an average of eight years to complete their PhDs, so that means people are in their early thirties before they are making real-world wages, and it also means that other life events--buying houses, having children, etc.--are significantly delayed. Your daughter should pursue a PhD only if she has a deep and passionate interest in the subject; for now, however, she should think about becoming a college student and enjoying all of the intellectual growth that entails.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

9

<p>Very well said Leroy.</p>

10

<p>thank you everyone.</p>

<p>Yes, there is time yet. We can both learn about grad school over the next 4 years. Thanks for getting me started.</p>

11

<p>Just wanted to add that if she wants to do graduate school, to try to start doing research as early as freshman year. Especially in psychology but any other field is fine. Even if she decides she doesn't like it, its still a useful experience to have.</p>