Applying To Prep School, 2010!!!!

Pre-College Issues High School Life
501

<p>I am disturbed that you don't seem to see the abuse in your servitude to seniors.</p>

<p>What I think you fail to see is the differnece between institutional (i.e. school administrator) rules of behavior (e.g. seniors can use such and such a facility during prime hours as an earned privleldge) and student imposed arbitrary servitude.</p>

<p>I don't think SPS has a rule requiring freshman to fetch seniors' pizza. If fetching pizza is a requirement to gain the wisdom and guidance of the seniors, I don't think I would want any part of that abusive relationship. I just don't think you understand what abuse is because you, sir seem to be a part of the problem.</p>

<p>While it may seem to be harmless to you, you may want to understand that other people don't work at the same level of social interaction and may not see the humor (if that is what you call it) in this level of sophomoric servitude. Some people just don't have the social development to tell the difference between the little things (as you call them) like fetching pizza and bigger things that cause greater harm.</p>

<p>And the students don't have the wherewithall to control such a system once things get out of control. Have you heard the saying "The inmates are running the asylum"? This is exactly what hazing is.</p>

<p>BTW, you are not doing your school a favor with your current argument at least in the eyes of parents who are participating, if you haven't picked up the hint. You might want to consider that you have a diverse audience to appeal to here.</p>

<p>And while it may appear that I do not have much of a sense of humor, I look at this as a teaching opportunity. I think you might want to get your own pizza as a senior and seek out a freshman in need of REAL guidance, not a vulnerable kid looking to learn how to suck-up. It would be good for both of you.</p>

<p>Getting out of my therapists chair... (see - I do have a sense of humor)</p>

502

<p>hazmat and goaliedad,</p>

<p>If one looks at it your way, then yes the actions by the upperclassmen would seem awfully wrong indeed. One thing you may have overlooked, however, is the fact that the SPS hazing incident, from what I have read (and actually spoke with one of the VI form girls involved), was never reported by any of the lower form girls. In other words it was acceptable enough to them that they felt any "harm" they may have suffered did not justify getting the older girls into trouble. (it is after all an initiation rite and by its nature a two-edged sword). The incident was in fact reported by a non-faculty staff member. Is that (unwanted/unwelcome behavior) not a key ingredient in what properly can be called hazing? </p>

<p>By the way, after all the speculation that the girl above would not get into any of the colleges she was applying to, as a result of the "hazing" and subsequent suspension from school, she got in at every one, I believe.</p>

503

<p>OK here we go, I'll try to keep this brief, although it is a subject where I have a large opinion so that may be difficult.</p>

<p>Once again, I'm not trying to do my school any service on this website. I believe if you truly want to go to school at SPS you'll see it for yourself and ignore whatever I may say on here. I'm simply posting my opinion, if I wanted to do the school a service and drum up applications through CC then I would be taking a much different stance.</p>

<p>I am also trying to not get overheated as this discussion has been civil which is appreciated, but I do occasionally get to'ed. Here is the essential part of "hazing" that I agree with: Seniors have earned a place at a school, as a result, they have a certain power. Now I do appreciate the fact that everybody should be treated with courtesy and seen as an equal upon arrival at school, I do believe that respect should be earned and that seniors have probably earned this respect. In my experience, the seniors who the underformers respect the most and are most eager to do things for are the nicest seniors, often the seniors who act like jackass are given the same treatment from the underformers. If you give respect you get it. Often I don't even have to ask underformers to do things for me because they respect me. I'm very nice to them, occasionally ask them to do things for me, look out for them outside the dorm and in turn they look up to me and WANT to do things for me. EG when I got into college they threw me a party. According to the definitions of hazing on this thread, I hazed these kids, yet they love and respect me, so what gives? I'm not trying to sound like a boarding school snob, but to outsiders, the practices within a dorm may seem completely foreign, but anybody who has been in that environment understands the positives.</p>

504

<p>leanid - </p>

<p>I don't agree with your assertion that because none of the "victims" complained that there was no hazing. That logic would not fly for sexual harrassment and hostile environments in the workplace.</p>

<p>While I don't have the specific facts of that SPS incident in front of me, if a staff member feels that a particular student run initiation is hazing, it is good enough for me. It is a credit to that staff memeber to identify the problem and bring it to the proper authorities. It is unfortunate that the press feels it necessary to sensationalize events like this, but unfortunately if it isn't exciting, it doesn't sell and if a writer doesn't find anything exciting to write about, I guess they don't get paid.</p>

<p>meateater - </p>

<p>It is good to hear that underformers do give it back to those ill-mannered seniors. It demonstrates that this behavior is not pervasive and in my book is just general bullying - not hazing.</p>

<p>I don't necessarily agree that because one is a senior that they are entitled to some special treatment from underformers because they are seniors. Respect for their accomplishments, absolutely as they have worked hard to achieve that status. Entitlement to personal favors - fuggitaboutit.</p>

<p>This whole hazing/bullying thing is about managing the 10% of the population that is vulnerable and the 10% of the population that is potentially predatory. When the 80% in between condone or look the other way when the predatory prey upon the vulnerable, it only encourages those populations to become more extreme.</p>

<p>As to why those kids you may have hazed love and respect you, even a beaten dog that is well fed loves its master. Abused spouses will almost always hide the abuse and defend the abuser. I don't know if you have been exposed to such a relationship, but if you ever do, you will understand that "love" and abuse often go hand in hand.</p>

<p>I am in no way saying that you are anything like that. You probably fall in the 80% in between as most of us do. However, a careful look at how we treat each other will often tell us that we are not as good of a person as we think we are.</p>

<p>This is all part of a growing process. You may not understand it now. Hopefully you will someday.</p>

505

<p>^Ok you said exactly what I wanted you to say in terms of you understand where I'm coming from. I agree that the problem with "hazing" is not the majority of kids that can handle a little bit of initiation, it is the 10 percent of kids that CANNOT handle it and the 10 percent that have a propensity for more sadistic behavior where the issue arises. I was merely trying to show that there can be lighthearted "hazing" and initiation/earning of respect which is not emotionally damaging. I find that the key is know who you are dealing with. I know which kids can take it, and which kids can't.</p>

506

<p>How bad are issues besides hazing??</p>

507

<p>
[quote]
I don't agree with your assertion that because none of the "victims" complained that there was no hazing. That logic would not fly for sexual harrassment and hostile environments in the workplace.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hear, hear.</p>

508

<p>
[quote]
I know which kids can take it, and which kids can't.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>'Nuff said.</p>

509

<p>Meateaters' attitudes are his own and already formed, so nothing I nor anyone else says on this board will change them. They are for him (and those around him) to live with. However, when he talks about the boarding environment, O disagree that his experience is the norm everywhere, at least hopefully not.<br>
All I can speak of is my d's experience in an English girls school a couple of years ago- where they take bullying VERY seriously and DO NOT tolerate it at all from any of the girls there. Parents on this board can realize that I hope that schools can/should be very proactive to address not only hazing, but its less-organized form - bullying.</p>

<p>Not that the girls are perfect; they certainly are not, and they "sharpen their tongues" on each other, as the Head said, as they grow up. BUT, these English girls schools take every single report of bullying extremely seriously and address it immediately. They investigate and try to get a true perspective on what really is happening. They understand through their long years of schooling these students that bullying is plain wrong, and I believe the reason they are so adament against it is that they truly "try" to inculcate a sense of compassion and kindness in the girls that will serve as the foundation for the rest of their lives. And, as was stated earlier on this board, the school there recognized that bullying, and certainly hazing (for which girls at my d's former school would be expelled), absolutely interferes with the educational experience - the social, emotional AND academic educational experience that good schools try to give their students. They also interestingly try to work with the "bully-er" to find out the root cause for the unkind behavior. That's the kind of American school to which I hope to send by d. Thanks</p>

510

<p>This servitude to portray as light hearted fun is unacceptable. I don't want my D to be subjugated to any form of humiliation or light servitude to an upperclass boy or girl. It's enough being away from home and adjusting to a different environment without the addes burden of dealing with this crap you're advocating.</p>

511

<p>That's why I never pledged because of the Frats rare form of fostering brother & sisterhood through degrading people in order that they be able to join some touted social club that furthers even more ludicrous behavior.</p>

512

<p>Rather than get into a war of words, I thought it might be useful to repost the comments I made last year in the "St. Paul's vs Exeter thread on the issue of hazing. </p>

<p>I know St. Paul's from the perspective of a parent. As should be obvious I think it is a very special place not only academically but spiritually. There are reasons why the place 'feels' right, why the ground to me at least seems warmer there than at Exeter. In the end I suppose, St. Paul's is about family, about growing up in love with ideas, beauty and a sense of place rather than about a frenetic pursuit of grades. The hazing incidents, for what it is worth, were experienced by my not particularly street smart child and to my certain knowledge by most students at the school as dumb, not as malicious or intentionally hurtful. They do not in any way affect my estimation of St. Paul's.</p>

513

<p>SPS scandals are appalling. People in high places making bad descisions and smudging a prestgious school. Too much bad laundry and Avon Old Farms just dominated them again on the ice to win the 2005 Christmas Classic Hockey tournament like a week ago. By the way AOF is current D1 new England Hockey back to back champs and Soccer d1 N.E. champs so athletically AOF is and always will be king of N.E. and the country. Ok Ok just givin' AOF some love for being the best school in new England for athletics, student school spirit, and havin' a good time.</p>

514

<p>^Yeah, also the best school in NE for breeding ridiculously dumb jocks. As my buddies dad used to say "First you go to a good school, then you get kicked out, then you go to Avon, then you get kicked out, then you go to Kent." Mentioning Avon in the same sentence as Andover, Exeter, or SPS is a cruel joke.</p>

515

<p>AOF??? Seriously?</p>

516

<p>By Wealthyivygirl (Wealthyivygirl) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:03 pm: Edit </p>

<p>OKAY GO BIG GREEN!! </p>

<p>DEERFIELD ACADEMY IS THE BEST SCHOOL ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. and by the way, out of a class of 140, here are its matric stats for this year's class </p>

<p>15 harvard
12 yale
9 princeton
9 upenn
5 columbia
11 brown
14 cornell
7 dartmouth </p>

<p>and like EVERYONE else is going to middlebury, williams, bowdoin </p>

<p>but it's not just the high caliber of the students that makes deerfield academy amazing. lemme put it this way, ANDOVER AND EXETER ARE LIKE HARVARD AND YALE, and deerfield is the PRINCETON of boarding schools. way way way smaller, much wealthier, much classier (we have dress code, sit down meals, academy events, etc.--andover and exeter dont). </p>

<p>i love deerfield. i was graduated in '02 and i love it so much. i miss itmore than anything. </p>

<p>By Andoverhopeful (Andoverhopeful) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit </p>

<p>Wow, WealthyIvyGirl, you are quite the moron. First, what is wrong with being the Harvard and Yale of boarding schools ? Second, you act like the brat you are and prance around talking about the wealth of you, your school, or whatever. </p>

<p>By the way, Deerfield has an endowment of approx. $250 million. Andover and Exeter have about $500 million each. Deerfield has 140 students per class, Andover and Exeter have about 250. Lets do the math. </p>

<p>$250 Million/4<em>140 = .44 Million per student
$500 Million/4</em>250 = .50 Million per student </p>

<p>Hmm, that's odd. According to you, Deerfield was "Much Richer". I don't think you learned too many math skills at Deerfield. </p>

<p>Class is also high subjective. You cannot simply say one school has more class then another. Also, Exeter does have a dress code, Andover does not (It is one of the reasons I will be going to Andover) </p>

<p>Please, don't force me to make you look stupid again. </p>

<p>BTW, this is not a knock on any deerfield students, it is a great school.</p>

517

<p>By Wealthyivygirl (Wealthyivygirl) on Tuesday, April 15, 2003 - 11:03 pm: Edit </p>

<p>OKAY GO BIG GREEN!! </p>

<p>DEERFIELD ACADEMY IS THE BEST SCHOOL ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH. and by the way, out of a class of 140, here are its matric stats for this year's class </p>

<p>15 harvard
12 yale
9 princeton
9 upenn
5 columbia
11 brown
14 cornell
7 dartmouth </p>

<p>and like EVERYONE else is going to middlebury, williams, bowdoin </p>

<p>but it's not just the high caliber of the students that makes deerfield academy amazing. lemme put it this way, ANDOVER AND EXETER ARE LIKE HARVARD AND YALE, and deerfield is the PRINCETON of boarding schools. way way way smaller, much wealthier, much classier (we have dress code, sit down meals, academy events, etc.--andover and exeter dont). </p>

<p>i love deerfield. i was graduated in '02 and i love it so much. i miss itmore than anything. </p>

<p>By Jules07 (Jules07) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 01:02 pm: Edit </p>

<p>IVY girl - where do you go to college ?
Princeton? </p>

<p>By Andoverhopeful (Andoverhopeful) on Thursday, April 17, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit </p>

<p>Wow, WealthyIvyGirl, you are quite the moron. First, what is wrong with being the Harvard and Yale of boarding schools ? Second, you act like the brat you are and prance around talking about the wealth of you, your school, or whatever. </p>

<p>By the way, Deerfield has an endowment of approx. $250 million. Andover and Exeter have about $500 million each. Deerfield has 140 students per class, Andover and Exeter have about 250. Lets do the math. </p>

<p>$250 Million/4<em>140 = .44 Million per student
$500 Million/4</em>250 = .50 Million per student </p>

<p>Hmm, that's odd. According to you, Deerfield was "Much Richer". I don't think you learned too many math skills at Deerfield. </p>

<p>Class is also high subjective. You cannot simply say one school has more class then another. Also, Exeter does have a dress code, Andover does not (It is one of the reasons I will be going to Andover) </p>

<p>Please, don't force me to make you look stupid again. </p>

<p>BTW, this is not a knock on any deerfield students, it is a great school. </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 12:25 am: Edit </p>

<p>andoverhopeful, </p>

<p>deerfield's endowment is A LOT higher than $250 million. It's more like $380 million. and what i meant by "richer" is the student body is wealthier than those at other boarding schools...and actually, that's a fault of the d.a. admissions office...they could stand to stop admitting every kid with dual legacies and an 7 figure trust fund. </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 12:27 am: Edit </p>

<p>haha my bad, did i say 'an 7 figure trust fund'? i meant to say 'an 8 figure trust fund' (hence the 'an') </p>

<p>sorry im a little out of it today... </p>

<p>By Dferraro (Dferraro) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 10:38 am: Edit </p>

<p>Ok those deerfield matric stats are a little off, Deerfield only discloses the matric CUMULATIVE stats for the past 5 years...so here is the average matric per year. </p>

<p>Harvard: 8
Princeton: 6
Yale: 7
Upenn: 10
Cornell: 10
Brown: 14
Columbia: 2 </p>

<p>Hmm..so 57 go to ivies out of deerfield..and 14 of those are brown which is considered to be one of the worst ivies. And if thats out of a class of 250..those are not very impressive. </p>

<p>I go to a smaller prep school with equal academics called Concord Academy..and we send more kids to science olympiads, more kids to very well known art/music schools (juliard for instance), and more kids to ivies based on proportion. Our average sat mean for this year was 1380. </p>

<p>In a class of 80..we have about about 40 going to ivy+top 10 us news....and that is high considering most of the kids are art-related, or film related-- </p>

<p>By Dferraro (Dferraro) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 10:42 am: Edit </p>

<p>I don't really care to prove my scoool's reputation to you because i could care less if Deerfield thinks it is better than me but quite frankly, I've talked to adcoms from top 25 schools on west coast and east coast and when they hear "concord academy" they just light up. </p>

<p>We have a different academic style than the deerfield, andover shcools--we are more geared towards love of learning...and in the end-- we have more compelling applications...we have many unique things at concord. I doubt it is the right place for most of you on this forum as you are way too reputation-oriented and haven't relaly found the call to the love of learningl...let me tell you, it rox :-). That is why colleges love our school--we are interesting people, and the true future leaders of world--not ones with daddy's with 8 figure trust funds and 500 million dollar endowments. </p>

<p>By Dferraro (Dferraro) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 10:43 am: Edit </p>

<p>Deerfield and andover kids ont his board...i've seen ur art curriculum--and let me just say it is a joke.</p>

518

<p>By Dferraro (Dferraro) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 10:48 am: Edit </p>

<p>After looking over your english department --(at deerfield)--I am also somewhat dissapointed with our course choices for such a large school--concord has double those choices in upper level electives and we are half our size... </p>

<p>And ur history departmnet...i really cannot believe this..US History required of all juniors..LOL all sophomores are required to take US history at my school..and half of them score 5 on the ap (the ap is optional of course). </p>

<p>By the way, what makes you think these schools are better than another? </p>

<p>I would say by academic facilities, curriculum, teachers, student environemtn, campus...and by curriculum you are definitely slacking.. </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 03:30 pm: Edit </p>

<p>Dferraro, </p>

<p>IT'S NOT OUT OF A CLASS OF 250, you doofus!! </p>

<p>deerfield has 140 in a graduating class. and you're wrong about those avg. matric stats. i have a sister in the class of 2003 and i know where every single one of them is going to school next year. the stats I have were correct. </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit </p>

<p>and i hate to break it to you but i live on manhattan's upper east side--nobody on the upper east side goes south of the ivies. we know our stuff and NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY on fifth or park avenue even VISITS concord academy. </p>

<p>what are you smoking???? this is ridiculous. how can even begin to compare a place like Deerfield Academy to concord? the dean of admissions from every top ranked school comes and spends a WEEKEND at d.a. and our headmaster and college counselors basically take them around and introduce them to us and sell us to them. </p>

<p>when my headmaster picks up the phone and calls brown, people listen to him (he was also the dean of admissions at brown for about 5 years, so i guess that helps). </p>

<p>just get over it, dude. there's NOTHING wrong with going to concord, but please admit that it's no in the same tier as d.a. </p>

<p>i went to Nightingale until third grade in manhattan...I'm perfectly happy to admit that Nightingale is much lower ranked than a school like Brearley. </p>

<p>of course...then i transferred to dalton... </p>

<p>anyhoo </p>

<p>By Dferraro (Dferraro) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 04:00 pm: Edit </p>

<p>Upenn 06 -- I'm sure you asked all 140 of them--and by the way, i got my numbers straight from Deerfield's website. </p>

<p>And guess what Upenn06..I live at 78th and park..guess what? I go to concord..guess what? I know many kids from my area who have looked at concord...seems like ur very broad inference turned out wrong. </p>

<p>And yes concord is in same field of deerfield..just look at faculty and curriculum -- prolly 2 most important factors..not to mention no one can beat concords historical setting...i mean it is perfect for those woh are interested in US History as opposed to the boondocks of Deerfield. </p>

<p>Oh yah and so what if the MAJORITY of people in new york dont visit CA..i dont really care because i'm glad my school is not full of snot-nosed silver-spoon fed twerps like you... </p>

<p>Not to mention, we do send more kids to better schools proprotionally... hahaha </p>

<p>Oh also, My sister graduated from andover about 5 years ago--She cautioned me from going to andover after she saw concord...She totally wished she went to Concord...She felt that the competitive atmosphere of Andover did not allow her to develop intellectually and also did not give her the extracurricular and artistic opportunities that CA offers. Also, since most kids go to Liberal arts colleges and Techonology schools from CA, there is less competition for the ivies. She wanted to go to Stanford, but settled for Wharton..she feels if she had gone to CA(concor academy) she would've gotten in... </p>

<p>Well from personal experience, her experience, and the adcoms i have talked to--I am very glad with my high school situation--I'm sure deerfield is great but even my sister says that Andover totally makes fun of you guys for being 1(Snobby 2(Sheltered 3(Totally unprepared for college --and by unprepared, it is probably most significant to socially as you will be exposed to diversity like you have never seen. </p>

<p>And actually.....we get plenty of representatives from colleges at our school...in fact this is pretty standard for most prep schools. I'm not even trying to sell here-- this is a pretty normal thing to occurr. </p>

<p>Umm...And by the way upenn06...those average matric stats are perfectly accurate..those are the total marticulations for the past 5 years divided BY 5 to yield the average per year (obviously deerfield does not have a solid maths foundation)....the 2003 matrics are compeltely indepdent of the the LAST (EMPHASIS ON LAST) 5 years of matrics. </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 06:17 pm: Edit </p>

<p>DFRARRO, </p>

<p>the stats for the class of 2003 aren't posted yet!!! jeezus do you think i'm just typing fiction here?? </p>

<p>give it a rest </p>

<p>By Upenn06 (Upenn06) on Saturday, April 19, 2003 - 06:20 pm: Edit </p>

<p>ps dfrarro </p>

<p>if you live at 78th and Park (which I dont think you do), tell me where you went to school in the city before you went to concord. </p>

<p>i'll rephrase: no new yorkers who go to the TOP manhattan prep schools have never heard of concord.if you went somewhere like columbia prep, dwight, allen stevenson, or riverdale, then i can understand how you might've ended up at concord....</p>

519

<p>it says that there is aposting by hardstyleprep, but when i click on this thread, there are none?? anybody have this too, or is it just me?</p>

520

<p>I appreciate any tips you may have, I posted my question on this thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=130231%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=130231&lt;/a>
Thank you.</p>