Applying to Stanford, Vandy, CMC, Chicago, Northwestern and Tulane. EA Choice?

Parents Forum
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<p>Rank 2009 Schools All App Early App</p>

<p>1 Williams College (MA) 17% 37%
1 Amherst College (MA) 15% 34%
3 Swarthmore College ¶ 16% 34%
4 Wellesley College (MA) 36% 51%
5 Middlebury College (VT) 17% 27%
6 Bowdoin College (ME) 19% 30%
6 Pomona College (CA) 16% NA
8 Carleton College (MN) 27% 55%
9 Davidson College (NC) 26% 40%
10 Haverford College ¶ 27% 51%
11 Claremont McKenna College (CA) 22% 28%
11 Vassar College (NY) 25% 38%
13 Wesleyan University (CT) 27% 46%
14 Grinnell College (IA) 43% 69%
14 Harvey Mudd College (CA) 36% 34%
14 United States Military Academy (NY) 16% 0%
17 Washington and Lee University (VA) 17% 44%
18 Colgate University (NY) 24% 51%
18 Smith College (MA) 48% 64%
20 Hamilton College (NY) 28% 38%
20 Oberlin College (OH) 33% 66%
20 United States Naval Academy (MD) 12% 0%
23 Bryn Mawr College ¶ 49% 53%
23 Colby College (ME) 31% 47%
25 Bates College (ME) 29% 46%
25 Macalester College (MN) 41% 47%
27 Barnard College (NY) 28% 48%
27 Mount Holyoke College (MA) 53% 52%
27 Scripps College (CA) 43% 48%
30 Bucknell University ¶ 30% 65%
30 Colorado College 26% 44%
32 Kenyon College (OH) 31% 55%
33 Trinity College (CT) 42% 68%
33 University of Richmond (VA) 32% 60%
35 College of the Holy Cross (MA) 34% 56%
35 Lafayette College ¶ 37% 56%
37 Bard College (NY) 25% 65%
37 Furman University (SC) 57% 66%
37 Occidental College (CA) 39% 45%
37 Whitman College (WA) 49% 74%
41 Sewanee—U. of the South (TN) 64% 54%
42 Connecticut College 37% 65%
42 Franklin and Marshall College ¶ 36% 70%
42 Union College (NY) 39% 77%
45 Centre College (KY) 63% 80%
45 Dickinson College ¶ 44% 71%
47 Skidmore College (NY) 30% 59%
47 St. Olaf College (MN) 59% 93%
49 DePauw University (IN) 65% 99%
49 Gettysburg College ¶ 38% 65%
49 Pitzer College (CA) 22% 43%
49 Rhodes College (TN) 50% 48%</p>

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<p>Rank 2009 Schools All Asmit Early Admit %
1 Harvard University<em>(MA) 8% 0%
2 Princeton University</em>(NJ) 10% 0%
3 Yale University(CT) 9% 18%
4 Massachusetts Institute Technology 12% 13%
4 Stanford University(CA) 9% 16%
6 California Institute of Technology 17% NA
6 University of Pennsylvania 16% 29%
8 Columbia University(NY) 11% 24%
8 Duke University(NC) 22% 40%
8 University of Chicago 28% 33%
11 Dartmouth College(NH) 13% 28%
12 Northwestern University(IL) 26% 40%
12 Washington University in St. Louis 22% NA
14 Cornell University(NY) 21% 37%
15 Johns Hopkins University(MD) 25% 42%
16 Brown University(RI) 14% 23%
17 Rice University(TX) 23% 34%
18 Emory University(GA) 27% 26%
18 University of Notre Dame(IN) 27% 42%
18 Vanderbilt University(TN) 25% 36%
21 University of California—Berkeley * 22% 0%
22 Carnegie Mellon University¶ 38% 29%
23 Georgetown University(DC) 19% 18%
23 University of Virginia * 37% 0%
25 Univ. of California—Los Angeles * 23% 0%
26 University of Michigan—Ann Arbor * 42% 0%
27 University of Southern California 22% NA
28 Tufts University(MA) 25% 33%
28 Wake Forest University(NC) 38% 51%
30 Univ. of North Carolina—Chapel Hill * 34% 0%
31 Brandeis University(MA) 33% 52%
32 College of William and Mary(VA) * 34% 52%
33 New York University 32% 33%
34 Boston College 26% 36%
35 Georgia Institute of Technology * 61% 0%
35 Lehigh University¶ 28% 58%
35 University of California—San Diego * 42% 0%
35 University of Rochester(NY) 39% 49%
35 University of Wisconsin—Madison * 53% 0%
40 Univ, of Illinois—Urbana - Champaign * 71% 0%
41 Case Western Reserve University(OH) 73% 89%
41 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute(NY) 44% 50%
41 University of Washington * 65% 44%
44 University of California—Davis * 53% 0%
44 University of California—Irvine * 49% 0%
44 University of California—Santa Barbara * 54% 0%
47 Pennsylvania State—University Park * 51% 0%
47 University of Texas—Austin * 44% 0%
49 University of Florida * 39% 0%
50 Yeshiva University(NY) 65% 0%</p>

<ul>
<li>Public Universities</li>
</ul>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Something interesting though that you don’t see in these numbers is that half the MIT class is made up of kids who applied early in the first place, which means a large number of the deferred kids go on to get accepted in the end. [MIT</a> Admissions: Admissions Statistics](<a href=“http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/]MIT”>http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/)</p>

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<p>pizzagirli: remember, the numbers xiggi posted are for the class of 2012. I know these are the numbers used in the 2010 college rankings, but keep in mind the #'s changed somewhat, especially for LACs, over the course of the past year</p>

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<p>Tulane has BOTH Early Action and Single Choice Early Action. So it IS possible to apply to both Tulane and Chicago EA. In fact, it’s possible to apply to both Tulane and Chicago EA, AND at the same time apply to one of the other colleged Early Decision. (Not Stanford though.)</p>

<p>Presumably, Tulane will look very favorably on those who choose the SCEA option rather than the EA option, but if Tulane is really a valid safety for the OP’s son, that extra boost shouldn’t matter. I think it’s still a good idea to apply to Tulane EA, for the reason the OP said – if he DOESN’T get in, there’s still time to revise the strategy, and if he DOES get in there but not elsewhere, there’s a lot of stress relief.</p>

<p>If I were in the applicant’s shoes, and I was certain that I liked Stanford and Vanderbilt better than any of the others (and if I wasn’t sensitive to differences in financial aid), I would:</p>

<p>– forget about Stanford, too much of a crapshoot to build your strategy around
– apply ED to Vanderbilt, because that’s where you want to go and applying ED probably helps a little, either now or in the regular round if you are deferred
– simultaneously apply EA (not SCEA) to Tulane, for the reasons given above
– and maybe to Chicago, as well, because why not?</p>

<p>If he gets into Vanderbilt ED, great. If he doesn’t get into Vanderbilt ED, he wasn’t going to get into Stanford SCEA, either, so no loss there. If he is deferred at Vanderbilt, he probably has a slightly better shot at RD for having applied ED, and one hopes he has a Tulane acceptance (and Chicago?) to fall back on (although a deferral or rejection ED at Vandy probably means he isn’t getting into Chicago early, either). If none of that pans out – deferred or rejected at Vandy, Tulane, and Chicago – then there is still time to apply to a few more schools that would be more realistic, including a chance to apply ED II somewhere.</p>

<p>I have to say that I am a little puzzled at a list that has Vanderbilt as a reach and Tulane as a safety. Are their admissions really so different?</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Despite the substantial changes at Tulane that started in the years prior to Katrina and the exploding changes in the past two years, few people would consider schools ranked in the first page of the USNews Report would also consider Tulane to be a reach, or even a match. On the other hand, almost everyine has to consider Vanderbilt a reach, or at best a high match. </p>

<p>Huge jumps in the number of applications do not always translate in dramatic changes in the school fabric or competitiveness. Changes in applications most often result from publicity (including gimmicks,) changes in format (going to Common Application,) waving applications fees, new scholarships, new dorms, better financial aid, or … a mere reaction to a reputation of being “easier” to get in.</p>

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<p>On my spreadsheet Vanderbilt is a reach, but not as reachy as some of son’s reaches and Tulane is sort of safe, but more on the matchy end of things. The reason?</p>

<p>Vanderbilt SAT 650-740 - Top 10% 79% of class - 34% acceptance rate</p>

<p>Tulane SAT 600-700 - Top 10% 59% of class - 45% acceptance rate</p>

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<p>^^^Vanderbilt’s acceptance rate has dropped considerably over the last two years. This year it was 19% overall. I think there is a notable benefit to applying ED. Although I’m not happy to advertise it (because I don’t like binding ED), Vanderbilt also has an ED II round, presumably to pick up a few applicants who got bad news from other ED or EA schools.</p>

<p>Based on my observations of a couple of years ago with my son’s cohort, Vanderbilt is a much tougher admit than Tulane.</p>

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<p>

I just called the admissions office and they confirmed that this is true.</p>

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<p>midmo, that could be that was from last year’s Princeton Review I think - that’s quite a change! It will put Vandy in the superreach category I think.</p>

<p>I’ve never heard of a school having SCEA and regular EA before - that’s a new twist!</p>

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<p>mathmom, below is information from the Vanderbilt admissions blog in March, 2009. Keep in mind, though, that the student profile data refers to admitted, not enrolled, students. The admissions rate has dropped a lot in recent years, though.</p>

<pre><code>* Admit Rate: 18.9%

  • Middle 50% SAT Reasoning (M+CR): 1400 - 1560
  • Middle 50% ACT Composite: 31 - 34
  • Percent of admitted class in top 10% of their graduating high school class: 92.15%*
  • Gender breakdown:
    o Female: 49.1%
    o Male: 50.9%
    </code></pre>
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<ol>
<li><p>I appreciate the education on Vanderbilt.</p></li>
<li><p>Given that 25% of Vanderbilt’s admitted class is over 1,000 kids, I am astounded that Vanderbilt admitted over 1,000 kids with combined SATs of at least 1560 on a 1600-point scale (or ACT 34+). That said, I find it difficult to believe that Vanderbilt rejected a whole lot of applicants with those test scores, simply because I find it hard to believe that Vanderbilt got applications from such a huge percentage of the kids nationally with those scores.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t know any school besides Tulane that has both EA and SCEA either, although I like the idea. It helps distinguish people for whom Tulane is really a first choice from people making a strategic EA application along the lines I was suggesting. I think Tulane wants both groups to apply, but it sure is nice to know who is who. It could also distinguish by offering EA and ED simultaneously (as Cal Tech did for a while), but SCEA is really a much more applicant-friendly deal, and will probably draw more applications than ED would have. Good for Tulane!</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>From Tulane’s Website
Entering Class Fall 2009</p>

<p>Applications
Applied 39,928
Admitted 26%
Enrolled 1500</p>

<p>Academics
SAT, Middle 50%
Critical Reading 620-720
Math 630-710
Writing 630-720
Composite 1880-2150</p>

<p>ACT, Middle 50%
Composite 28-32
(Louisiana has guaranteed admission to Louisiana students with 3.5 and 28 ACT so out of state range would be slightly higher)</p>

<p>Tulane is definitely more of a safety for some students than Vandy but I’ve heard of many admitted recently to Emory, and the like, but not TU. This is usually due to TU’s assumption that TU was not the student’s first choice but still it’s worth noting. </p>

<p>Best of Luck!</p>

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<p>from JHS:

</p>

<p>Really? Vanderbilt offers a full tuition scholarship to many students; the school of engineering throws in engineering fees and a computer. Students who are NMF get an additional 2K per year on top of the rest.</p>

<p>Frankly, I find it hard to believe that Vanderbilt does not see even more students with very top scores/gpa and course rigor applying.</p>

<p>Needless to say, many of those with top scores who did not get the scholarships are not enrolling. Nonetheless, I expect to see an increase in the mid-50 scores of enrolled students as compared with a couple of years ago.</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>Perhaps it helps to consider that Vanderbilt is very popular among students who are also very interested in the Ivy League AND that Vandy offers merit aid. The case of Evil Robot (old story on CC) can illustrate why an extremely high scorer would apply to Vandy. </p>

<p>Further, the differences between the SAT scores of the admitted students and the scores of the enrolled students reported on the CDS clearly indicate that Vandy does lose a considerable number of its highest scorers. </p>

<p>Lastly, the information released by schools such as Brown, Wellesley, and Rice that shows the percentage of admissions between groups of SAT scorers (or ranked students) offers a better insight about how many are … not accepted.</p>

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<p>[Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)</p>

<p>Wellesley = [Statistics</a> 2012](<a href=“http://www.wellesley.edu/admission/admission/statistics.html]Statistics”>http://www.wellesley.edu/admission/admission/statistics.html)</p>

<p>[Rice</a> University | Prospective Students](<a href=“http://www.futureowls.rice.edu/futureowls/Admission_Statistics.asp?SnID=2]Rice”>http://www.futureowls.rice.edu/futureowls/Admission_Statistics.asp?SnID=2)</p>

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<p>In 2008, there were fewer than 4,000 students nationwide who scored 1560 or above on CR/M on a single test. Maybe superscoring would bring that up to 6,000. I know Vanderbilt is popular, but it isn’t THAT popular, at least not where I live.</p>

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<p>JHS, do you believe the numbers posted by Brown? (see link above)</p>

<p>Critical Reading
Scores - Applied - Admitted - % - Enrolled - %
800 2,131 491 23% 199 14.7%
750-790 3,080 512 16.6% 235 17.4%
700-740 5,192 702 13.5% 378 27.9% </p>

<p>Math
Scores - Applied - Admitted - % - Enrolled - %
800 2,148 439 20.4% 177 13.1%
750-790 4,472 713 15.9% 338 25%
700-740 4,830 613 12.7% 342 25.3%</p>

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<p>JHS:</p>

<p>

</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I’m sure superscoring is a factor–as it is for all top private schools as far as I know.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t doubt in the least that Vanderbilt is not THAT popular among the private secondary school crowd in Philadelphia. It is very popular, however, in the south, large parts of the midwest and in Texas. Even in parts of the country that did not previously provide many applicants, including top ones, popularity has grown for a number of reasons, including merit awards, generous need-based financial aid, greatly increased diversity of the student body, a brand new freshman residential living program, and the realization by many that there is a middle to this continent.</p></li>
<li><p>If you think the numbers are phony, by all means provide some evidence to back up your disbelief. The fact is, I know many students with SAT scores above 2350 who have applied to Vanderbilt, along with all the usual targets. Some are attending, some will be starting in the fall, and some chose other schools.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Guys, guys! I’m not attacking your moms! I already admitted that Vanderbilt was much more selective than I had thought.</p>

<p>I was reacting to the data midmo posted above, which said that 25% of the group Vanderbilt admitted this year had a combined CR/M score of 1560 or higher. Based on Vanderbilt’s CDS for 2008, I believe that means about 700 individuals. (I said 1,000 before, but I wasn’t taking account of the fact that only 2/3 of Vanderbilt applicants submit SAT scores.) Now, in any particular year there are only about 4,000 individuals who actually have a combined CR/M score of 1560 or above, and superscoring may increase that to 6,000. Still 700/6,000 is a very high percentage of the population.</p>

<p>I’m not accusing Vanderbilt of fraud at all. I certainly can believe that more than 700 students with combined CR/M scores of 1560 or higher applied to Vanderbilt. The question is how many more? If, like Brown, Vanderbilt only accepted about 25% of applicants with those scores, it would mean that it would have had to receive applications from almost half of the kids in the country with combined superscored 1560+s. That’s what I was expressing doubt about. I don’t believe Vanderbilt gets applications from half the kids in the country with 1560+. I don’t believe Vanderbilt gets applications from a quarter of the kids in the country with 1560+. Therefore, if I believe Vanderbilt’s numbers, I have to believe that Vanderbilt accepts a very high percentage of applicants with 1560+ SATs.</p>

<p>Brown’s numbers are different, because they are based on individual tests, not composite scores. There are probably something like 10,000 kids every year who score an 800 on one or both of the CR/M sections, but only 1,000 who score 800 on both (maybe 1,500 with superscoring). If Brown claimed it got applications from 2,100 kids with 1600s, that would look like fraud, but it doesn’t strain my credulity to consider that 20% of the kids who score 800 on at least one of the tests might apply to Brown.</p>

<p>There’s another possibility, too – that the Vanderbilt number is not really 1560 combined, but that the sum of the 75th percentile level for each test separately is 1560. That would change the analysis a lot – instead of a denominator of 6,000, I would have a denominator of something like 15,000.</p>

<p>(By the way, at least Vanderbilt is on the radar screen for the Philadelphia private school crowd. For the Philadelphia public school crowd, it might as well be the University of Mars.)</p>