Seeking inputs on early strategy

Parents Forum
1

<p>For financial reason, we would like DS to apply SCEA at Stanford. With two family members doing great at the school might add a point or two for him. The downside is that it is a restricted EA therefore he will not be able apply any other school early. DS visited Penn and likes it a lot. Through research, he is also developing a strong interest in Univ. of Chicago. We will make a trip to the windy city soon. </p>

<p>So, what are some pros and cons in plan 1) Penn ED and Chicago EA, or 2) Stanford SCEA? We understand the ED is binding and we do need FA. We have reviewed the FA policy of Penn and think we should be able to handle it with loans. </p>

<p>DS has developed a well balanced school list. He consulted me on this aspect of the plan and I don’t have a good answer. While I am fairly well informed on most part of the college application process, I really know little on early applications other than the definition. </p>

<p>I am writing this post with great hesitant, because I really need help but very afraid of getting some lectures. Please help. Thank you.</p>

2

<p>I would not apply to Penn ED unless your son really wants to go there. Of the three, Penn seems to give the most benefit to those applicants who apply ED. Obviously, EA or SCEA has no binding commitment, but of the two remaining schools, I think your son would get more benefit from SCEA, plus his legacies, at Stanford. Legacies at Penn are a big deal in the ED process (and virtually worthless thereafter). I don’t know how Stanford treats them in the SCEA process. The benefit to Chicago is simply that you can apply to other schools EA, for whatever that’s worth.</p>

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<p>I would be guided by Stanford in this - don’t apply early unless it’s his clear first choice. He will have to sign a document to that effect. Of course there are people who game the system, but he will feel better if he is honest in the application process. I could be wrong about this (and probably will be corrected), but having a sibling there is not the same as being a legacy. While the admit rate is higher (about 15% as opposed to 7%), the applicant pool is really tough, including a lot of legacies.</p>

<p>If your son falls in love with a school, that’s the one to apply early to. Otherwise, stick with EA (not single choice) and regular admission. If my kid needed FinAid I would not encourage him to apply ED anywhere. Why limit his (and your) financial options?</p>

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<p>Stanford is the least ‘loyal’ to legacies and siblings of any top school. Unless he really has the stats, applying ED to Penn, where ED does help, may be a better strategy.</p>

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<p>Dad II - Does your son have a clear first choice? If so, go with the first choice if he has the matching stats. If he’s weak on the stats, then go with EA’s.</p>

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<p>I don’t think anyone who relies on financial aid should apply to any school by binding ED. It’s taking a big risk. </p>

<p>Another thought: Just because Stanford turned out well for other family members does not necessarily mean that it’s the ideal choice for this student. He seems to find urban universities appealing. Does he even want Stanford on his list, or is it there simply because it’s familiar to the family?</p>

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<p>Which of the three schools does he like best? Or would he be happy at all three schools?</p>

<p>I do hope that he has a good match / safety profile as well, because I would hate to see his strategy be all about rolling the dice at the tippy-top schools within nothing below top 20 except for the state flagship. Please just assure us that you aren’t just going for prestige and that you have a well-thought out list that goes beyond the usual stereotypical suspects for an Asian male :-). </p>

<p>Good luck to your son!</p>

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<p>If your son’s first choice is Stanford, then apply early. Since it’s SCEA…that would be the only EA school. </p>

<p>As you know Dad II, even with the same financial aid forms, need based aid packages can vary significantly between schools.</p>

<p>You have repeatedly said that financial concerns are paramount in your son’s college search. With these financial aid concerns, I would not allow my kid to apply ED anywhere…ANYWHERE.</p>

<p>Remember, you will only have two kids in school for TWO years (assuming DD graduates on the four year plan and I’m sure she will). Remember that your need based aid will be recalculated annually and when there is only one kiddo in college, your whole EFC will be HIS. Plan ahead.</p>

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<p>Dad II - You know your son’s stats and you could compare it to his sister’s. I don’t think Stanford would give him much of a bump for SCEA. On the other hand, if he has good enough stats for Stanford, and Penn is not his first choice then I wouldn’t do ED. But if his stats is on a borderline (not 4.0, 2200+ and great ECs), then do ED at Penn. It would be hard for me to believe that anyone would truly be unhappy at UPenn and regret going there. I am also a believer of getting into the best school possible, then worry about “fit” later.</p>

<p>I think many people take prestige into consideration, or at least ranking, lets not kid ourselves.</p>

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<p>Oh, no doubt. There’s certainly nothing wrong with shooting for the top. As long as there is a good match / safety profile, and in the case of this particular poster, true financial safeties.</p>

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<p>Thank you every one for your very kind input, except …</p>

<p>The key question from my side is whether any of these one early application boost DS’s chance. The second unknown is how does FA from these three compares with each other. While we like to support DS for which school he like the most, we must consider if we could afford it. </p>

<p>To help us making decision, I am making a QFD with a forced ranking of key parameters.</p>

<p>school----Pref.----FA------Major----Chance----Sum
Stanford–1-------9-------3---------1---------14
Chicago—3-------1-------9---------9---------22
Penn------9-------3-------1---------3---------16</p>

<p>The most favorable gets a 9, the chance is based on published admission rate. The pref. is my guess of DS’s preference and will confirm with him later today.</p>

<p>It looks like S and Penn are about the same and Chicago stands out. Even if we put a 1.5x weight on FA.</p>

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<p>Why would anyone apply SCEA to a school that he does not like?</p>

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<p>The concept of QFD is a forced ranking. It is not that DS does not like any one school. It is a forced comparison of the three in consideration. </p>

<p>Again, that pref. will need to be confirmed later. </p>

<p>Also, it will mean so much for us financially if DS could go to S.</p>

14

<ol>
<li> Chicago wins because it gets two 9s in the OP’s analysis. But as among these colleges in some of the parameters the differences among them do not justify the geometric scoring progression he has used. For instance, there are few, if any, majors for which Chicago delivers 9x the value of Penn, or 3x the value of Stanford. And, while financial aid may well be different, and his rankings accurate, Stanford is still not going to be 9x Chicago or 3x Penn, unless he attaches a huge value to the last couple thousand dollars of borrowing.<br></li>
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<p>Also, on chances, where the proportions are more correct (although probably more like 1-3-5), there is a failure to account for the fact that one can apply early simultaneously to Penn and Chicago. So with the Penn ED strategy, the likelihood of a good early outcome exceeds the likelihood of being accepted at Penn by some meaningful margin.</p>

<p>So I think the decision matrix has not been refined enough to make it useful.</p>

<ol>
<li> My kids went through almost exactly the same analysis, with different schools (some of them) and different outcomes. One decided that the SCEA chance at the first choice was not high enough to forgo a better ED chance at close-second choice plus EA at somewhat more distant (but still high) third choice. The other applied to the SCEA first choice, and also to a rolling-admission lower choice, but this kid didn’t really have a high enough choice with ED to consider an ED application anywhere.<br></li>
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<p>Both were deferred at their more-preferred early application school, and ultimately rejected in April, and both were accepted early at their secondary early application school. Which was nice for each of them, and made the winter much more tolerable. The first kid fell much more in love with third-choice/already-accepted college between December and April, so that when decision time came around it was easy to say “yes” there. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Something else to take into account: Chicago and Stanford have roughly compatible schedules. Penn is on a very different schedule than either of the others. Sometimes it’s nice for kids to see each other, even if they are not at the same college.</p></li>
<li><p>Is #2 II the same obvious superstar that #1 II was? Hard to tell, because their Dad has toned down his act so much. Stanford SCEA has been awfully brutal recently. Having them at the same college would be great (especially with consistent financial aid). But if it’s a pipe dream, best not to make that the centerpiece of the application strategy.</p></li>
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<p>But does applying EA to Chicago confer any admissions advantage? Usually, EA doesn’t, unless it’s SCEA.</p>

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<p>Penn’s schedule is similar to that of most East Coast universities. Chicago and Stanford have schedules similar to those of the UCs and some other midwestern universities (e.g., Northwestern). Which is better depends on where the student lives and where his friends go to college. We are Easterners, and the one Northwestern student among my daughter’s friends has found her atypical schedule to be a disadvantage.</p>

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<p>we who? If your son doesn’t want to go to Stanford, please don’t insist that he apply.</p>

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<p>I suspect that Dad II is talking about how it would be preferable (ideally) for both his kids to be on the same schedule in terms of flying them out, planning family trips / vacations, etc. Not that he’s worried about their schedules relative to their friends back home. And he certainly has a point, but Stanford is such a long shot for everyone. Dad II won the lottery once; he’s now hoping to win it twice. I can only offer him the best of luck!</p>

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<p>I think Dad II is thinking by applying to Chicago and Penn his son would have 2 shots, whereas SCEA is just one.</p>

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<p>Wait, can he do both Penn ED and Chicago EA? Is that permitted? I thought Penn ED meant no other EA of any sort, but perhaps I’m mistaken.</p>

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<p>Students around here are told that if one subtracts recruited athletes and developmental admits from Stanford’s SCEA one finds little advantage to the typical applicant percentage wise.</p>