<p>OK, I see where you have gotten this impression. Of course, for better or worse I’m not sure how many architects care if the contractor or engineer think highly of them If I was looking at person with a dual degree I would assume a few things;</p>
<ul>
<li>In order to get the dual degree they must be organized, hard working, and focused.</li>
<li>They are probably more in tune with the technical reality of building and can probably advance quickly into technical and management positions.</li>
<li>They will probably not contribute much in design.</li>
</ul>
<p>I know there are exceptions to this rule, but people attracted to the engineering side of the profession tend not to be the most creative designers (Calatrava aside). I worked with a talented recent graduate in NY with an MArch from Harvard, he also had an engineering undergraduate degree from MIT which he would never tell anyone about. He was concerned that if other architects knew he had an engineering degree he would not get design opportunities. It was probably a smart move on his part.</p>
<p>Rick - Would this hold true if my DD got a dual Master’s in Architecture and Building Construction? Would she be passed over on design work and given the structural work instead? She really does have a great sense of proportion and space (in my biased opinion.) I think she really loves both aspects of design and construction. Does she basically need to just pick one or the other side of the coin?</p>
<p>I think the same thing would apply for a dual architecture/building construction degree. Your D would be a very appealing candidate with her perspective for both sides of the building industry, but probably not as an architectural designer. To develop a high level of design skill in school will take all of your focus, and trying to combine abstract, high level, conceptual thinking with ‘how much is this going to cost and how are we going to get it built’ thinking is not easy.</p>
<p>I should also point out that probably less than 10% of the staff in any full service architectural firm is involved with ‘clean sheet design’. Design is an ongoing process that happens all through a project, but the architects who can start a project with a client brief and a blank sheet of paper are pretty rare. We go recruit at five or six schools a year, interview 70 to 80 graduates looking for the best portfolio, hire 4 to 5 of them, and out of those perhaps one in ten develops as a clean sheet designer.</p>
<p>Okay. So, I’m learning here. I always think of an architect as a designer who sits with a client and listens to the client’s needs/wants, goes back to the office, creates a rendering and/or model, presents it to the client, and wins the job. If only a few architects are “clean sheet designers”, what do the other architects in the firm do?</p>
<p>In a typical project for us schematic design is 10% of the job. This is where the basic design gets set. Design development is 15% of the job. This is where materials and other details get sorted out. Production is 40% of the job. This is where the documents required for construction get produced. The remaining 35% is for construction administration.</p>
<p>A team typically starts small and adds staff along the way. The clean sheet design occurs in the first 10% and is typically done by a small team. In our process the design team remains with the project for the duration of the drawing production with other team members added along the way. Some of the larger offices have a separate department to do the design which then gets handed off to the production team. Documenting even a medium sized building so it can get regulatory approval and get built requires hundreds of decisions and a tremendous amount of coordination with the engineers and other design disciplines. These tasks get split up among the many team members. The work really gets started once the schematic design is set. A really good building requires creative individuals all along the way, but it requires just a few individuals to generate the initial concept.</p>
<p>Who knew?! I’m definitely showing my DS this thread so she can have a more realistic idea of what architects do. This may help her decide if architecture is the right career for her. Many thanks for the insight.</p>
<p>There are many sole practioners out there who do everything themselves. However, you won’t be working on big buildings. You’ll be doing the kind of work I do - additions, decks, remodelling, small restaurant interiors. I like what I do very much most days - being able to do aoo of my own engineering would be very useful.</p>
<p>In the firm I worked for longest was in Germany, so they may have done things differently, or it may have been due to the size of the firm (15), but I often got to do parts of the design (facades for example) even if someone else had worked out the basic floor plan. I did design development all the projects I worked on, and the last thing I did with the firm I was project manager coordinating everyone as well as working on drawings.</p>
<p>to rick,
i am a senior in high school, and i was thinking of a dual degree in arch/arch. eng. at University of Texas-Austin, or Arch.Eng. at Penn State, and im just not sure what i should do.</p>
<p>ps your advice has been really helpful in answering questions i didnt even know i had until i saw them on here</p>
<p>Caiti, the architectural engineering program at UT is a great program, you just need to decide what you want to do with it. It is really geared for students who want to be structural engineers, or who want to work as project managers for construction companies. For either of those two professions you will be a very attractive candidate. One of our recent UT graduates started out in the program before transferring into architecture, and he confirmed my thoughts about it. There are design studios, but they emphasize the structural aspects of the design.</p>
<p>If you want to be an architect I would suggest entering the standard architecture program. The architecture program at UT is strong technically and will give you a very solid base for practice.</p>
<p>My father graduated from UT Austin with a degree in architectural engineering over 50 years ago. Worked his entire career in aerospace engineering. Go figure. As a little kid, I was amazed how he could write in that super-neat draftsman’s printing. I don’t think they teach that any more.</p>
<p>im reaaally intrested in civil engineering and evryone is telling me how well it pays and stuff but does it differ for men or woman and i live in dubai most people tell me they would rather hire a man than a woman is that true???</p>
<p>NO DEMAND!!! OMG!!! LOL… wait is this only for the US or global-wise too? i mean im a high school student and i can still choose my path even though i want to be an architectural engineer. i mean, i dont plan on staying in the US if i want to be an architectural engineer but if its no demand globally, that’s kind of bad.</p>
<p>hello rick,
you seem like quite the advice giver and i desperatly need your advise.
Here’s the thing, right now im studying architecture, first year. I like it but the work load is too much for me.
so ive been considering Architectural engineering for the following reasons:
i adore maths and physics, but always loved buildings. Since i was a child wanted to be an achtiect.
However, thinking bout job opportunities, i want a wider range to chose from.
So im thinking if i study civil engineering where i live (we take general civil so i can work as enviromental, structural, design, surpervisor, project management, etc…) then continue studying architectural engineering where i can study a bit bout architecture.
That way i learn a bit bout architecture and get to design a bit of architecture, if i find myself bored and wanting a career switch, ill have other options especially with the bad economy.</p>
<p>So what do you think?
its a must for me to be able to work as an architect as well.
and i dun care bout money, so its not an issue!</p>
<p>Lanaak, Even in first year you should be getting a feeling of whether you really enjoy studio and architecture in general. If you are really not enjoying it and feel like the work load is overwhelming then perhaps architectural engineering might be a good option. Just keep in mind that architectural engineering is designed to create engineers in the building industry who understand the design process and are able to more effectively apply their engineering skills in the building industry. It is a solid degree and will make you an attractive candidate. However it will not be really easy to switch back to architecture and become a designer or project architect.</p>
<p>You need to be realistic about what is going to make you happy, and perhaps the engineering or construction side of the building industry will be a more rewarding career for you. Just be realistic that without an architecture degree it is going to be difficult to move back into the architectural profession. The workload in architectural engineering is also going to also be pretty substantial, but it will be a different kind of workload, and perhaps one that you will enjoy more. Hours spent in the library and with study groups as opposed to hours spent in studio. </p>
<p>I am at Penn State and I am a freshman also trying to make the tough decision between architecture and architectural engineering. I am currently in AE. I was told that i could go to a masters program and get an masters in architecture. I am not sure if this is true however, I thought it was 3.5 years. Would it be possible for me to get a masters of architecture in 2 years after my AE degree? I take architectural studio, design, and history throughout the 5 year AE program.</p>
<p>I just had a couple of questions I wanted to ask, since I am kind of lost! I am currently a first year student in UBC Vancouver. I have always been interested in Architecture and design, though the university I attend only offers Civil Engineering for a bach,and there are no universities in my city that offer Arch as a bach! But, UBC laos offer a masters in Architecture. Would pursuing a bach in civil and then getting a masters in arch be a solid combination of degrees? Would I still get jobs in designing buildings or projects with these two degrees? Thanks in Advance!</p>
<p>KK, with a MArch degree you can do anything in the profession. Civil engineering would certainly give you a solid foundation. As you are studying civil engineering you might find that this is what you have a passion for and decide to pursue it as a career. I have known a few ambidextrous people, but most folks fall into either the left brain or right brain camp and will find one profession or the other more appealing.</p>
<p>Dave, you should ask at Penn whether your ARch design courses in AE would knock off any time for a M.Arch since they offer all the versions of becoming an Arch in one school. The students who take the 4 yr Bach in ARch studies then go on to do the 2 year masters. Ask them if they would accept the AE ones to knock off a year or even 1/2. You might even check other M.Arch programs, email them your curriculum and ask them if you have enough credit. Otherwise, in the worst case, you spend the extra year but you will be very qualified over the non arch majors who start too.</p>
<p>Lakemom, are you referring to Penn or Penn State? Dave says he is at Penn State, where the masters program in architecture is not an NAAB-accredited program, so he could not become licensed by obtaining that degree. At PSU, the 5-yr BARCH is NAAB-accredited. Penn’s masters program IS accredited.<br>
Dave, after you complete your AE degree, you can become a licensed architect by obtaining a MARCH degree, but the masters program must be NAAB-accredited in order for you to become licensed. Check the NAAB website for a list of accredited degrees.</p>
If I was looking at person with a dual degree I would assume a few things;</p>