<p>I agree, especially today, it is always better to have a Masters than a Bachelors even if in Arch, the Bachelors really means more years focused experience. Hadn’t thought about the Phd issue. </p>
<p>And as you pointed out, there is that gap if you want a M.arch from Cornell or Columbia, it will take 3+ years regardless of whether you have a 4 yr BS/BA in arch or a 5 yr one so yes, students need to plan accordingly.</p>
<p>Lakemom, You are soo right planning especially in this major/profession is incredibly important, and being really informed on your options for education and testing. Understanding that some MArch programs will cost you 8 years instead of 5 years of your life should be something you deeply consider before beginning.
JM2C</p>
<p>@HomeSchoolNewbe
Sorry, I guess I was mistaken. However, it does seem that there is very little difference between the M.Arch undergrad and a B.Arch degree.</p>
<p>‘if you want a M.arch from Cornell or Columbia, it will take 3+ years regardless of whether you have a 4 yr BS/BA in arch or a 5 yr one’</p>
<p>Actually if you wanted a Masters degree from Columbia or Harvard and you had a BArch degree you would go into their post-professional degree program which is typically a 3 semester program (summer + 2 semesters). At Columbia this is an MS in Architecture and building design. These are great programs typically geared towards students with 2 to 4 years of professional experience.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>Sorry for my mistake. It is hard to keep track of who has what kind of masters program. Thanks for the correction.</p>
<p>I was an Architectural Engineering major. It was a good choice for me because I wanted to learn about the engineering of buildings and structures. I didn’t care at all about transportation, urban planning, wastewaster treatment, etc. After my BS in ArchE, I went on to get my MS in Engineering (emphasis on structures).</p>
<p>I met my husband in grad school, and we started our own firm in 1999. We run it out of our house. I think structural engineering is a wonderful career. Up in Maine, at least, engineers are doing better than architects. Architects in our area design a lot of houses, and that market is still very depressed. As engineers, we’ve been able to diversify. We work on all sorts of projects: industrial, medical, commercial, military, insurance claims, etc. At least one of those areas is always doing well. We make an excellent income but get to live in a beautiful state. Our house in the woods, next to a river. We can always drive to Boston if we start msising the big city.</p>
<p>We do a lot more than size columns, by the way! We usually have a lot of input in the early stages of buildings. My husband was the structural engineer of record for the Portland (Maine) Public Market, and he worked closely with the architect to come up with the building’s unusual look. The structure combines concrete, steel, and timber construction and won several awards. It’s too bad the Market failed as a business - now it’s used for office space. Here are a couple of photos: [Cooltown</a> Studios](<a href=“http://www.cooltownstudios.com/2007/06/28/portland-public-market-design-isnt-enough/]Cooltown”>http://www.cooltownstudios.com/2007/06/28/portland-public-market-design-isnt-enough/)</p>
<p>It’s funny how my outlook is different from Rick’s. After seeing architects juggle the minutiae of project coordination as well as deal with owners and contractors, it makes me glad I’m an engineer! I don’t think architects are paid enough for the amount of responsibility they bear.</p>
<p>MaineLonghorn, You seem very knowledgeable and experienced. I am posting for my High School Junior. He has always said he would get a degree in Architecture and Engineering. Now that we are exploring the idea, it seems that is not very practicle. He is a natural with math. He’s taking AP Calculus now. He has also stated that he wants to do something with some design or art to it and not just technical stuff. Do you have any comments or suggestions for him? I think he might love to chat with you, someone in the real world.</p>
<p>So, is structural engineering the branch of engineering that designs buildings? Nate, my son, thinks he wants to major in Mechanical Engineering. He wants to “build things”. It is a shame that we are not more educated on the different types of degrees, but we are working on getting more info to help him make a decision.</p>
<p>Thanks for any input.</p>
<p>I must say I am so glad I have found this feed. Rich and Mainelonghorn I would love to hear your opinion on my current dilemma. I have my degree in Architectural Eng, my plan was to always go and get my MAarch. Given the current economy and I question if this is a good choice. With my work experience in construction, and engineering all of these disciplines love to fight with one another. I currently work for a MEP/Electrical firm. My passion is working with buildings. I always wanted to be an architect who worked in historical preservation. I love structures Timber, Masonry, Concrete, Steel just something about it. Although, I find myself getting bored running calcs all day, and I sometimes wish I could design some of the aesthetics of the buildings. I worked in High school and College designing and building landscapes mostly terraces and retaining walls. The wall landscape designs is what makes me think Architecture would be a great option.
Given that state of the economy and knowing none of my peers have been able to get a job in Structures, Arch E, Architecture unless they have there Masters. I know going to school is a must to get back into structural design. (MEP is where the jobs are thats for sure). My fear is I go and do my MArch then finding that I really wish I could be doing Engineering. Please no one take offense to this but I dont know if I have the personality to be an Architect. Another concern is starting salaries, for both architecture and Arch E, are way below what they were in 2005 is it all worth it to be that far in debt when there are no jobs and the markets is slow to come back and will never reach what it once was. Im to the point where Im just working and thinking about the next step is stressful. I know MEP is not where I want to be, but I know it is better than no job at all. </p>
<p>Thank you</p>
<p>Arch, I understand your dilemma. I think that MEP engineers are relatively the lowest paid members of the building team with the most difficult job. I have seen an exodus locally of mechanical engineers from consulting firms over to either general contractors or MEP subcontractors.</p>
<p>I really don’t know what it takes to get a job with a structural firm, so I can’t offer much there. There is no doubt times are very tough right now in the architecture business, though we have not lowered our starting salaries for recent graduates. How will the economy be in the 3.5 years it will take you to get a Masters is anyones guess. I certainly thought it would be getting better by now, but we just seem to be bouncing along the bottom. At some point there is going to be a significant demand for new graduates because so many people have been forced out of the profession and so many baby boomers are getting ready to retire.</p>
<p>Do you really want to be an architect? I’m sure you have worked with many over the years, and personally I would think it would be a lot more rewarding than MEP engineering because you get a broad oversight over the entire project. If you have been working as an engineer design studios may came as a shock. My son’s latest project is to design a three dimensional fabrication emphasizing movement based on a scene in the movie Fantasia. Perhaps graduate studios will be a little better but it is going to seem very touchy feel. On the other hand it may be just what you are longing for. You won’t know until you try. I spent two years studying engineering and architecture came as a breadth of fresh air, I loved it.</p>
<p>Good luck, but remember it is a very long career to spend doing something you don’t enjoy.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>Rich, Thank you. I don’t know if I TRULY want to be an architect. I haven’t done enough to know what it will really take. We had a couple of design studios in school but not to the extent of most architecture classes. I forgot to mention that I graduated Architectural Engineering- Structural. What happens when I get my MArch and cant get a job and then I’m not able to get an engineering job because now people think I will always want to do Architecture. I guess I want my cake and I want to eat it.
Once again thank you for your thoughts.
ArchEUW</p>
<p>During Real Estate Bubble, construction sector was a very strong employment base for both labor and professional fields. Those times are OVER. There’s a significant over-supply of every building type in most areas of US. (It’s worth regular reading Hanley Wood’s Architect magazine and/or web-site, plus Archinect web-site to monitor architecture profession’s situation.)</p>
<p>Note that architectural schools pump out more graduates than vacant positions needed to be filled. There are many more “architects” now than a decade ago, much less two decades ago. The Bubble period kept many architects employed, but the price was saturation of most markets. Many firms have closed, merged, and/or had massive lay-offs, only a few firms have begun rehiring, and if so, fairly tentatively. Look at what’s happened to SOM, once a powerhouse firm w/enormous staff.</p>
<p>Chosing architecture as a major/profession now requires significant fortitude, to endure the rigorous educational process, the formidable licensing process, and the relatively unstable (when compared to other professions w/significant education and licensing requirements) long-term career pathway. Architecture can be an enjoyable profession, but it also can be frustrating.</p>
<p>I’m friends w/two dual-degree architect-structural engineers, both working as bridge engineers. Both are quiet guys who don’t fit stereotypic “designer architect” profile, and seem happy w/career direction. Infrastructure market may (note MAY, do to local/state/federal government budgetary problems) remain steady client for engineering-architecture firms, for replacement and refurbishment work.</p>
<p>I’ve applied first choice Arch. Engineering/Civil Engineering (depending on the school) and second choice Architecture… but now I think I might enjoy Architecture much more… I love math and art… and I’m really good at both… I don’t know… I feel like I’ll be really good at architecture I’m just scared of not being able to find a job and having a low salary… I know with engineering you’re basically guarenteed a job… at least that’s what my dad keeps telling me… I don’t know I just don’t think I will like engineering and I can’t decide which is more important… what I know I’d be happy doing or what will get me a job… ugh</p>
<p>Is it really that hard to find a good job as an architect? </p>
<p>I’m sorry if this is a repetitive question… I haven’t read all the previous posts… just the earlier ones</p>
<p>Yes, getting a job in architecture is still pretty tough, but better than it has been for about the last three years. We are hiring and there is a lot more activity at the job fairs. My sense is that things seem to be gradually improving, but it is still a delicate recovery.</p>
<p>Engineering or architecture? I have a son who is a sophomore in each. They both work the same amount of hours, but one spends his time alone in his room or the library, the other is in studio with his friends drawing and making models. The architect is part of an active architecture co-ed social scene (50/50) and is headed off to Europe in the Fall for a semester of study abroad. The engineer knows perhaps a dozen guys (not many girls in the class) from his study group, and is joining engineering clubs to meet others. Study abroad does not seem to fit into the curriculum. However when he graduates he will probably have his pick of jobs.</p>
<p>You just have to decide where you will fit best. My only suggestion is that if you are going to go through the hard work of studying engineering don’t go into architectural engineering. Go work for Boeing or GE, somewhere that the engineer is king. It just doesn’t make sense to me to go through all the work and end up facing the same economic roller coaster as the architects who had all the fun in school.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>I am a sophomore in high school and I am trying to deceide between a degree in Architecture or Engineering (structural or cival). I love math and I am good at it. I haven’t taken physics yet but I believe I will be good at that as well. I have been reading this thread and I am so confused over all the different abbreviations! I am assuming BArch is Bachelors in Architecture? and MArch is Masters?
My mom says I would have an advantage in either field given that I am a female. I don’t know if that’s true or not.
I am starting to look into colleges and would be interested in peoples opinions on good schools for both Arch and Engineering. I live in TX and with my grades I would be gaurenteed acceptance into any TX state school upon graduation, however I am also interested in knowing what out of state schools are good.
Thanks ahead of time to anyone who may read na danswer me.</p>
<p>Sam, I would urge you to go to a summer studio program so you can get a better feel for what an architecture studio feels like. I would also suggest taking art courses in high school to start building a portfolio. The decision between architecture and engineering is much more than just salary and job prospects, it is also about aptitude and what you are going to enjoy doing the rest of your life. There are not many people that can slot equally into both.</p>
<p>As far as architecture schools you can look at the Design Intelligence rankings to get an idea about national schools. In Texas, UT Austin and Rice are both outstanding and UT Arlington is very good. Kansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State are also outstanding schools nearby. There are a lot of good choices.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>Thanks Rick. I am looking into taking a summer studio class at Washington U at St.Louis. I also am taking an Architecture Cirriculum and an Engineering Cirriculum currently at my HS. I really enjoy both so that’s why I am torn between the two right now.
I started looking into UT Austin (Holy crap it’s huge!!) I will look into the others you suggested. I have also looked into Columbia and GA Tech.</p>
<p>Sam, I would also look at this site; [NCARB</a> - National Council of Architectural Registration Boards](<a href=“http://www.ncarb.org%5DNCARB”>http://www.ncarb.org)</p>
<p>These are the folks that will eventually grant you a license to practice architecture and they have a section on studying architecture which explains the differences in the degree programs.</p>
<p>rick</p>
<p>I’ll do that as well! Thank you Rick</p>
<p>This thread has been a great help just skimming through it and I want to say thanks to rick12.</p>
<p>I applied Early Decision for Cal Poly SLO Architecture (Bachelors of Architecture), but the rest of the schools I’m applying to are for engineering. I’m in the same situation as other people in this thread - I like engineering and the salary that comes with it, but I also like designing. I’ve always seen myself designing buildings one day.</p>
<p>Is now really a decent time to start an architecture degree? I’ve been thinking and researching. BLS says “employment of architects is projected to grow 24 percent from 2010 to 2020, faster than the average for all occupations”. I’m hoping if job potential is growing and I go to the best architecture school in the nation I’ll be able to find a job.</p>
<p>UT-Austin also has a dual degree - Architecture and Architectural Engineering. It’s very challenging, but I knew one guy, when I was an ArchE major, who went that route.</p>
<p>To get into either ArchE or Arch at UT is VERY difficult. ArchE is the hardest engineering department to get into (because it’s so small), and architecture is also very competitive. If you have any questions about the ArchE program, let me know. My dad is a prof in the department (yes, I had him for two classes! I made sure I studied my butt off in those).</p>