Hello all. So here is my conundrum. I have been back and forth on deciding on a major quite a bit but where it stands now, I am choosing Architecture and Construction Management.
I am heavily interested in the design aspect of building, which is a big reason I am drawn to Architecture. I took an Intro to Architecture class a few years ago as well and thoroughly enjoyed it.
But I am also heavily interested in Construction Management and the potential career paths it holds. I have looked into the Project Management side of things when it comes to this field and am definitely interested in doing that. But I am also interested in the potential to open my own business working in residential construction and remodeling.
Either way, I will likely be involved in real estate to a point. Currently I own a condo that we are in the process of remodeling while we live there so that when school is done in a few years it will be turned into a nice little rental property.
Here are my concerns:
Architecture career potential in my state seems relatively low. I live in Utah and just by browsing for available jobs in both fields, Architecture is far outweighed by Construction Management. I am also concerned about the potential of losing my “design touch.” It scares me to hit a wall and not be able to think of a design or plan. I am sure this may happen regardless but is it as big of a problem as I think it is? Also, how necessary is it to obtain a Masters degree after completion of a BS?
As for Construction Management, the degree is only able to be obtained from a lower level university, whereas a BS in Architecture would be obtained from the only accredited architecture program in my state. I don’t think that will play a large factor in job placement though since the higher level universities don’t offer those programs. I am also not 100% I love the idea of not being too involved in the design process? What career options are available for a CM degree that will keep me close to the design side? Or are there any?
I have contacted some advisers to seek their opinion on job outlook for architects as well as a few other questions. But any additional input would be greatly appreciated.
My son graduated from a lower level state university with a degree in construction management. He has not been without a job since before graduation, and in fact has been approached by several companies trying to hire him. He works long hard hours but loves his job but has been able to negotiate easily regarding salary as there seems to be a shortage of qualified replacements in his area. . He has worked for large construction companies who do commercial construction (large office building, hotels, etc.) His company does design-build contracts so while he does not get to design from the ground up, he has been able to design small modifications and to modify designs based on what he finds in the field. He is also interested in eventually owning his own business. He worked in many areas of construction while obtaining his degree, so by the time he graduated had hands-on experience with concrete, rebar, flooring, dry-wall, custom truck design and modification, etc. It has really paid off as employers like the fact that he has actually worked in the field and so can better relate to the construction end of the projects. He graduated about 5 years ago, but worked part time for his first employer prior to graduation. He has steadily moved up the ladder to a Project Manager and loves that his office is currently on-site of his largest project so he is involved in the daily activity of the project.
We are in California, and architecture jobs are in short supply here also. We have a good friend who is an architect, and doing well, but he has said he would advise his kids to stay away as job prospects are very poor. Hopefully you will hear from others who can confirm or deny that statement.
My son is currently getting his Contractor’s License in his spare time and also has earned a LEED certification, in hopes that he will be able to use them for his own business eventually.
Thank you for the feedback. That actually helps quite a bit. It sounds like what he does would definitely be of interest. That sounds like a very similar path to what I would be interested in doing. I, unfortunately, do not have current professional construction experience. My problem with that is I got sucked into the customer service/IT world that pay typically a couple dollars an hour more than what I would make in any form of laborer position with a construction company. I have heard of people not having the background but I have also heard that it helps and can go a long way. Guess we will see on that front.
I’m not sure that the construction experience would make that much difference as far as getting a job. It is just the route that he took to get his degree. We were not even sure that he would finish a degree as he didn’t really like school when he graduated from high school, and didn’t know what he wanted to do other than NOT sit at a desk all day. We tried to get him to go to school full time but he chose to take a class here and there for a few years while he worked construction. We were actually frustrated with him at the time, but in the end it worked out to be the best thing for him. I think what actually helped him the most was doing a paid internship when he finally did decide what to do and was back at school full time his last 2 years. He got a lot of good experience and that company hired him when he graduated. Good luck!
[quoteAlso, how necessary is it to obtain a Masters degree after completion of a BS?
[/quote]
I think you have to check the regulations of the state in which you intend to practice. Some states allow graduates with a BS architecture to become licensed architects, but I believe that most require the BArch or MArch (or substantial work experience) in order to begin the licensing process.
I don’t think it’s uncommon for architecture firms to hire applicants who only have a BS, but I believe that you would have better opportunities and higher income potential with a BArch or MArch, even more so as a licensed architect.
I can’t speak for Utah, but I’m not so pessimistic about entry level job prospects in architecture. My son and his colleagues (Class of 2012/13) both with BArch and MArchs seem to have done well in job placement all over the country. Of course, a lot depends on the kind of internships and connections that you make while in school and that in turn may depend on the individual school.
I’m not sure where you are in your education, but if you’re attracted to the design aspect of architecture you may be disappointed if you give that up for construction management. Architecture schools vary quite a bit in their balance between design and structures. If you go for an MArch, you might want to look for a school that provides the balance that appeals to you. A degree in Real Estate Development on top of architecture is another option.
That actually provides some good insight. I’ve been in college since 2007 and currently have my AS but due to numerous things (marriage, divorce, kid was born, entered military service) I have been severely delayed in getting my BS done. I work a desk job now and although the pay is decent for not having a bachelor’s degree, I hate it. I would much rather be on my feet for at least some of the day moving around. There are a couple local internships that I will be looking into. One fore Geneva Rock and the other for Staker-Parson. I also have a buddy in my unit who is doing that degree and has a paid internship with Sunroc. I will definitely keep my eye out. Thank you for the great feedback and your somewhat first hand experience. It has helped me feel more at ease with a CM degree decision.
Well I spoke with an adviser from the architecture program today and in order to be a licensed architect I would have to complete their MArch program. Their BS program is a Bachelor’s of Science in Architecture. That being said I did a small search for architect jobs and there were a few of employers (about 8 or so) that a bachelors is all they required. But they do not specify whether or not they want a BArch or if a BS in Arch is acceptable.
I know CM would take me away from the design aspect but it touches on other areas that are of great interest to me yet seems to have higher job potential out of college within my state based on what I have been looking into. Unfortunately, I am limited on being able to seek employment outside of the state with my present situation. So I am limited within the state of Utah.
I think I have made my decision at this point to go with CM for a few different reasons. Thank you for the feedback though.
It depends on where. Utah does require a professional degree to become licensed. But Arizona doesn’t. Neither does California, Wisconsin, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, or Maine, off the top of my head.
I’m a licensed Architect with only a BS in Architecture. A former boss in California only has an associates, and he’s a principal of a very large firm, and licensed.
However, you CAN’T get a NCARB certificate without a professional degree (until they change the rules this summer).
Utah’s reciprocity rules are odd - Some states have easy reciprocity rules, like in California, if you have a license from another state, you fill out a form, give them money, and take a supplemental exam and your licensed. Other states are sticklers, like in Massachusetts you HAVE to have a NCARB certificate. Utah, if you don’t have a professional degree, requires you to work in the state you are licensed for 5 to 7 years before you can get a license there.
Colorado also doesn’t require a professional degree for licensing. Like most states, that means you have to spend extra time interning before you can qualify to take the exam. The average person takes over 5 years to complete all the requirements - the mean age for first test (meaning they have finished all the internship requirements) last year war 31 years old. It takes the average person almost 10 years to finish all the internship requirements.
For job requirements: for entry level work, most firms want someone with training. A BS in Arch is more than adequate. As you move up, things change a little.
If I were you, I’d get the BS, work in Utah and pursue my license initial in AZ or CO.
If you can’t hack architecture school - and lots of people can’t, when I went through, about 1/3rd of my class dropped out of the program - construction management is a good backup.
@scorpio516 I didn’t realize you can become a licensed Architect with just a Bachelor of Science in Architecture. When you said you have a BS in Architecture - I’m assuimg that was that a 4 year degree (not the BArch) - right? If so, please tell me how you became a licensed Architect. Is it faster to become licensed if you get a Masters? I find this confusing. My D is currently enrolled at Wash U getting her BS in Architecture. Thanks!
Also, when can my D start a summer internship at an Architecture firm? I mean how many years is considered enough “training”? I’m assuming one year isn’t enough? Also, if you have advice on how to go about looking for an internship that would be helpful too. Thanks!
@scorpio516 - are you saying after you get your BS in Architecture, get a job and work and then get the license in AZ or CO and then apply for reciprocity to get a license in the state you reside in (assuming they allow it?). Do you know if Texas allows it? Thanks!
@scorpio516 Thank you for the input. That actually helps greatly. I never considered the option of licensing in a different state to get licensed here in Utah. The issue is due to my custody arrangement, I will unlikely ever move from the state so that makes my options feel somewhat limited. Another concern is the time factor. I am 25 already and it sounds like completing all the internships and licensing requirements would take me well into my 30’s which is a lot longer than I am willing to wait at this point.
I think I have decided on the CM route based off the potential career paths that greatly interest me.
@4wheelin4evr
I don’t think you have to move out of state get the license. I think what scorpio was saying is you can get the license out of state and then fill out the paperwork in your state to get licensed in your state as well. Hopefully he can confirm this too.
I believe it is similar to taking a CPA license. For example, you can live in NJ but take the CPA license in Florida instead of NJ. Once you pass and meet FL’s requirements, then you fill out the paperwork to also get licensed in NJ (without taking the exam again). People in NJ go to FL because it is easier to get the CPA license in FL vs. NJ because the requirements are easier.
I think you’re confusing the NCARB certification with licensure. The requirements for licensure are controlled by the States. Once you have your license you can obtain NCARB certification which verifies that you have fulfilled the requirements for licensure and facilitates reciprocal agreements between States. Once licensed, you can also join the American Institute of Architects and put AIA after your name.
In most States, the requirements for licensure are education, experience and examination: Complete the BArch or MArch degree or work equivalent, complete the Intern Development Program (IDP) and pass the Architectural Record Exams (ARE).
The IDP covers 5600 work hours in 4 categories. You can begin this program at any time, as long as you follow the registration and documentation requirements.
The ARE currently consists of 7 separate exams, though I understand that the number of exams will be consolidated in 2016. You can begin taking the exams when you have your BArch/MArch. In States that don’t require the BArch/MArch the timing varies.
The amount of time involved to fulfill both the IDP and ARE is variable depending on your commitment level and on the support of your employer(s). 5 years is common, though you may do it in only 3 or take longer than 5.
States that do not require the BArch or MArch for licensure each have their own education equivalencies. For example in California, a person with a 4 year pre-professional degree (BS) in architecture needs 4.5 years work experience. The IDP requirements must also be fulfilled, though I’m not clear whether the 4.5 years includes the time spent fulfilling the IDP or is in addition to it. The ARE can be taken after 5.0 years experience.
Having a BArch or MArch is the fastest and easiest path to licensure, but as @scorpio516 explains, it’s not the only path. Just as you can become a licensed architect without a BArch/MArch, you can also work in architecture without being licensed. You can’t officially call yourself an “architect” but you can be an “architectural designer” for example. The path you take really depends on the type of firm you work for. Architecture is a big field with a lot of different types of opportunities.
Thanks @momrath. I don’t know why they’ve made the education process so difficult to take the Architectural exam (licensure). I mean it should be a simple path like engineering is. I believe for engineering they only require a 4 year UG degree in engineering. Architecture should be the same way and it should only take either 4 years as UG or 2 years as a masters. In my opinion, it shouldn’t take either 4, 5, 6, or 7 years to get an Architectural education to satisfy the licensure rules. Engineering isn’t that complicated. I wish they’d simplify it. It is so confusing as is and most don’t even know that there are so many different options which can be costly too if you aren’t aware of all the rules.
Utah is a bit of an odd duck. They kinda allow reciprocity without a professional degree, if you have a good bit of management experience in the state your licensed it. If you want to stamp drawings in Utah, you’ve got to have a professional degree. M.Arch vs. BArch, doesn’t matter (except that U. of Utah only has a MArch program). If NCARB’s broadly experienced architect (BEA) program changes this summer, it doesn’t matter.
IDP is probably changing too. It’s 5600 hours (used to be measured in days), but about 3000 of those are elective hours. You need so many hours doing construction documents, so many doing construction administration, and a lot of other things, but that only about 2500 hours required.
'The IDP requirements must also be fulfilled, though I’m not clear whether the 4.5 years includes the time spent fulfilling the IDP or is in addition to it. The ARE can be taken after 5.0 years experience."
California doesn’t technically use IDP, they naturally modified it and called it CIDP (all they really did was rename it). There, CIDP takes 5600 hours, but you can start sitting for exams without completing CIDP, after 5 years of work/school experience. A professional degree counts as 5 years, so you can start taking exams the day you graduate. You could pass them all the week you graduated, but you’d still have to complete the 5600 hours of CIDP before you can become licensed. All the numbers in CA are concurrent. Theoretically, you could graduate high school, get a drafting job with a great boss, and complete CIDP in 2.5 years (absolute minimum time). You’d have to work an additional 2.5 years before you could take the first exam, and an additional 3 years before you can be licensed (it takes most people over 3 years to pass all the exams though).
I would just add a point. We are a construction and architecture firm. We hire quite a few architecture graduates into the construction side and their skills are as good if not better than the CM grads. However we never hire CM grads to work in the architecture side. It is a one way street.
