Are acceptance odds better applying ED than RD?

Parents Forum
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<p>There are some scattergrams that use different symbols for RD and ED, allowing one to see the differences, such as at collegedata and **************. Naviance also provides that data.</p>

<p>For several of the schools my S considered, there appeared to be a decided ED advantage, where within certain regions in a scattergram, the ED data points seemed to be more likely to be accepted than the RD data points. It wasn’t that there were lots of ED acceptances outside of the normal range, just that the acceptance rates of ED students within range were more likely to be accepted than RD students with identical grades/scores.</p>

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<p>Some colleges openly state that they have higher acceptance rates for ED applicants. I see no reason not to believe them.</p>

<p>For example, take a look at this page on Cornell’s web site: [Cornell</a> University Undergraduate Admissions Office - HOW TO APPLY](<a href=“http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear/early.cfm]Cornell”>http://admissions.cornell.edu/apply/firstyear/early.cfm)</p>

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<p>D’s experience: the college she applied ED to has historically accepted about 20% of the students who applied from our high school. Every one of those accepted has been ED. However, when we looked over the data, we found that the students who had applied ED had higher GPA’s than the students who had applied RD. So in this case it is really impossible to tell if ED was an advantage or not.</p>

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<p>Kids’ HS had a notebook that listed all the schools to which kids the previous year applied. It included GPA, test scores, whether they applied ED or RD, and outcome for all applicants to each school - no names of kids listed so everything was anonymous.</p>

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<p>My school, a top 50 LAC, takes about half of its incoming classes from ED.</p>

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<p>Why would you even consider ED and lock yourself in with no other options if you believe applying ED indeed has no advantage over applying RD?</p>

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<p>Your GC has ulterior motives. Under its former adcom, Penn made it quite clear that ED was a significant advantage and even posted that information on its website. </p>

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<p>I was gonna post the exact same thing. In every info session that I have attended, the presenter has clearly stated that ED IS an advantage for the unhooked applicant. Again, it may be only a small plus factor, but it is an advantage. </p>

<p>When you think about it, it only makes sense. Those colleges that offer ED will never win the cross-admit battle with HYP (unless they offer big time merit money), so it’s to their advantage to lock in kids early. In essence, colleges that offer ED prefer to see some ‘applicant love’ and they reciprocate.</p>

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<p>You probably won’t see anything that comes close to confirm that “ED isn’t really easier because the ED pool is so much stronger than the RD pool” because it is easier said than … demonstrated. In simpler terms, it is probably … untrue, but the story is bound to please an audience that is very well aware of the tremendous advantages of ED but does not like to hear that the ED represents a “benefit” of 100 SAT points. </p>

<p>On the other hand, the seminal Avery et al study (quoted above) focused on 14 highly selective colleges for which they had detailed data on each applicant from the l991-92 to l996-97 academic year. The study shows that acceptance rates during early decision rounds are higher than those for regular decision and that students who are admitted through early decision are slightly less qualified than students admitted during the regular decision round. Controlling for SAT scores and rank in class, they find that the admissions rates of early applicants exceeds the admissions rate for regular applicants by 15 percentage points or more.</p>

<p>While there are a more recent studies that confirm the conclusions of Avery, I do not think that any study to this date has been able to support the notion that the ED pool is stronger than the rRD or overall pool.</p>

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<p>I’ve read the both the book and article referenced above and have compared ED/RD acceptance rates at various colleges. In the majority of cases, ED does give an unhooked candidate an advantage. At some schools this advantage will be larger than others.</p>

<p>If it is your student’s clear first choice school it is well worth exploring the ED option. Find out how much difference there is between ED and RD acceptance rates. If you can’t find the info on the internet, you can call and ask the admissions office. </p>

<p>One thing we were surprised to find out is that ED1 can have much more favorable acceptance rates than ED2. </p>

<p>If you have concerns about financial aid, it is perfectly acceptable to pick up the phone and call the financial aid office. I had lengthy conversations with the financial aid officer, explaining our complicated financial situation. She was able to give me a ballpark idea of the expected costs (in our situation it was impossible to predict the EFC based on prior income). </p>

<p>For our family, ED worked perfectly. My D. had a clear first choice, her stats were on the upper end of the school’s range, and the financial aid office was able to assure us that we would be able to afford it. With all that in mind, my D. applied and was accepted. She is ecstatic to know where she is going next fall, even as some of her friends are finalizing applications. This is at a top LAC, where according to our school’s Naviance data even students with tippy top stats sometimes get rejected.</p>

<p>As to Xiggi’s post on accepted stats, I only have anecdotal information. At least at the school my D. will attend, it did appear that weaker candidates were rejected in the early round. I was actually quite surprised to see some of the rejections that were posted here on CC. Of course, I was only privy to the info they posted on a public forum which may or not be true. Essays, recommendations, extra-curriculars, all play into the decision as well and we can’t evaluate those here on CC, when we only have SAT and GPA info to go on.</p>

<p>I have also seen situations where the high school guidance counselor will recommend that a candidate apply early decision if it is his/her first choice, when the GC knows that there will be lots of internal competition with many students from the same high school applying to the same college.</p>

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<p>Regarding statistics, the much maligned USNews is offering a number of interesting lists … and a nice video:</p>

<p>Video:
[Early</a> Decision vs. Early Action | U.S. News & World Report](<a href=“http://usnews.feedroom.com/?fr_story=9e407c1d24a2aa5550133e384fc68dbee59f8ceb]Early”>http://usnews.feedroom.com/?fr_story=9e407c1d24a2aa5550133e384fc68dbee59f8ceb)</p>

<p>[Colleges</a> Where Applying Early Decision Helps - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/09/30/colleges-where-applying-early-decision-helps.html]Colleges”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/09/30/colleges-where-applying-early-decision-helps.html)</p>

<p>[Colleges</a> Where Applying Early Action Helps - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/09/30/colleges-where-applying-early-action-helps.html]Colleges”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/2009/09/30/colleges-where-applying-early-action-helps.html)</p>

<p>And, guess what, all three sources are free. :)</p>

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<p>Is there any way to post a picture on this board? I think a picture, or rather a scattergram, tells a thousand words.</p>

<p>Go to collegedata, look at WashU St. Louis class of 2013 scattergram view, remove all of the “Applied”, “Not Applied”, “Pending/None” statuses, so that you can see Accepted, Waitlisted, and Denied with less noise. ED points have a circle around them. There are some green dots (Accepted) with circles around them (ED), that are in areas of the scattergram where they are surrounded by a lot of yellow dots (Waitlisted) without ED circles.</p>

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<p>And, for anyone who believes that Barnard is one and the same as Columbia, the percentages of ED seem to offer remarkable benefits. Close to 50% admit rate at Columbia? </p>

<p>Barnard College
ED = 48%
Overall = 29%</p>

<p>Columbia University
ED = 24%
Overall = 10%</p>

<p>Same story for anyone who loves the idea of the Wellesley bus to MIT</p>

<p>Wellesley College
ED = 51%
Overall = 36%</p>

<p>MIT
EA = 13%
Overall =12%</p>

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<p>Fair question.</p>

<p>In our case, D’s ED school was her very favorite. She had the stats to get in and we knew we would not get a dime in need based aid no matter where she went. Her school happens to be lousy for merit aid, but we knew if she waited she would still want this school. </p>

<p>So she applied ED, got in and was able to relax.</p>

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<p>2girls4me - how did you find out that ED1 can have much more favorable acceptance rates than ED2? Usually you can’t find any information on ED1 vs. ED2 acceptance rates.</p>

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<p>Having an acceptance in hand in December and not having to finish your other application forms might be sufficient motivation. However, I believe that most students who apply ED believe that it offers an admissions advantage as well.</p>

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<p>FallGirl/Marian, the reason you each gave is definitely a good reason for applying ED. </p>

<p>When we worked on S1’s early round options, we were thinking mostly about finding an admissions advantage. We came up with a list of schools that he’d attend if he gets accepted to any one of them. Yes, he had a favorite, but the school is an EA school. We look at increasing his chances at one particular school through ED, but gave it up because he wants to give his #1 EA school his best shot. So my mind was filled with thoughts of “admissions advantage”. </p>

<p>The peace of mind of having EA acceptances in hand is well worth the early application effort. For us, that peace of mind also includes knowing that we are not locked in to any of the accepted schools yet. I guess since we do need FA, until I have a kid who is definitely set on an ED school as his/her runaway favorite, I’m not able to fully appreciate ED if there is no advantage in admissions.</p>

<p>I wonder how many low stats applicants throw in their ED apps, hoping the higher ED admit rate will get them into a good school, even though the school may not be their clear first choice. For schools that claim there is no clear admissions advantage in applying ED, and that the higher admit rate is due to self selection and a more competitive applicant pool, it would be interesting to see what happens if they switch from ED to EA. Their claim would more believable if the average stats of the EA admits is the same as that of their prior year ED admits. </p>

<p>I’m sure some top schools have switched from ED to EA (SCEA is a different beast) in the recent past. Does anyone have data on this?</p>

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<p>Xiggi, thanks for those US News lists. I knew I had seen some schools where ironically ED rates were lower than RD.</p>

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<p>I totally get why a college would offer ED, but I have no clue why they’d ever offer EA. Tell them that much earlier, so they can continue to comparison shop?</p>

<p>And also, xiggi - you wouldn’t happen to have an updated version of the post you made about 6 months ago in the “applying to stanford, vandy …” thread, with the rates among the top 50 unis and top 50 LAC’s? If so, many thanks in advance. I have that thread linked on my iPhone home screen!</p>

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<p>PG, unfortunately, the data I use to compile the lists has not been made available by all schools. In the meantime, the list you have added to the USNEWS lists linked above should give you a pretty good idea for the next year’s numbers. </p>

<p>My recommendation is to track the latest CDS and google the individual websites of the schools you’d like to monitor.</p>

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<p>Thanks, xiggi. Appreciate your help.</p>