Early Decision...a REAL advantage?

Parents Forum
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<p>Sorry to be hogging the treads here, but we just got my daughter's final 11th grade grades and ACT scores so this whole application process is just coming into final focus. </p>

<p>I am hearing conflicting things about "early decision". It seems it sort of a "heads the college wins, tails you lose" thing. In theory it would seem that there would be an advantage when a kid applies ED and says "this is where I wanna go and am ready, willing and able to commit if you say 'yes'". </p>

<p>But in reality I have heard that many schools just "defer" the "on the fence" students and only take the ultracream of the crop who apply ED. </p>

<p>So what's the point? Or IS there a real advantage to be expected from applying ED? I guess you no worse off by applying to your top pick ED than if you don't apply anywhere ED, but it's not clear that there is any real advantage either.</p>

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<p>Logically, why would a highly selective college accept a borderline candidate ED? They are then just tying up a space with an iffy candidate, when they know they will have 10 times as many applicants to look at in the RD round. It is only an advantage to the college to accept an ED applicant if that applicant offers them something they aren't sure of getting in the RD round. </p>

<p>So I think that no matter what anyone says, at the Ivies or other elites -- the colleges with plenty of applicants and a high yield -- then ED is a time for them to lock in the very top students, the recruited athletes, and those with a hook like legacy status -- and to pass on the others. </p>

<p>For colleges a little lower on the selectivity chain -- especially those likely to be used as safeties for the elite -- then the equation would be a little different and it makes more sense to grab what they can from the ED pile -- since they are at a competitive disadvantage when trying to choose the best applicants in the RD round. </p>

<p>On the other hand if your daughter has a clear first choice and you don't qualify for or need financial aid -- then you are right, there is no harm in applying ED.</p>

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<p>On most of the college pages (if the information is available) in The Best 361 Colleges book, they give the % of early applicants that are accepted. You'll find that in some cases, there's no advantage and in some there is a tremendous advantage.</p>

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<p>I don't have that handbook...maybe you could tell me about Emory and Carnegie-Mellon? Thanks!</p>

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<p>My S applied early decision to an Ivy. I don't believe he was a "borderline" applicant, but he also certainly was not a cream of the crop, can't miss. He was an individual who looked very interesting in a thoughtful, not obvious way, to a reader who had time to really see his application. I am not at all sure that he would have stood out in the herd in April, as he was able to do in December. And making it clear that the school he applied to was his absolute first choice couldn't have hurt, either. It was a win/win for him.</p>

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<p>Sorry, my youngest will be a junior in college so I no longer have the book. I gave it to his high school guidance counselor.</p>

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<p>Colleges looking to improve their yield definitely have a motivation to accept kids ED. If the applicant does not need financial aid, it's a way to lock in a full-pay student as well.</p>

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<p>I agree with Calmom. There does seem to be a clear advantage for kids who already have hooks such as legacy or being a recruited athletes. It can be a boost for URMs as well. After that, I see no advantage. Other than friends and family, I think they take the kids they know they could lose to more sought after schools (Dartmouth will take a kid likely to get into HYPS).</p>

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<p>In my case, we would be full pay. I've been told that most acceptance is need-blind...but it seems you are saying that, at least <wink, wink=""> this is not the case. </wink,></p>

<p>So how do we "wink" about being full pay without being blatant...if our daughter applies ED with a great essay that mentions why X University is best for her and her first choice?</p>

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<p>According to the very good counselor we're using. It really depends on the school. Once you get past the stratosphere schools they do generally take a look at need and being full pay helps tremendously. If you're talking about ED at a top school, the benefits of being full pay is in your preparation, private school kids are way overrepresented at ivies.</p>

<p>They know you're full pay when you don't check the applying for aid box on the first page of the app!</p>

<p>I've also been warned against using the essay to explain hy the school is a fit. It should be obvious accoring to our counselor!</p>

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<p>We found that early was NOT the advantage we thought it was for us. We found fit to be the best predictor of acceptance success. To be specific so you'll understand what I mean, S was set on going to Williams, to the point of wanting to apply ED. However, a last minute trip to Hanover and an incredible experience there switched his loyalty to Dartmouth. People tried to dissuade him: he is definitely not preppy and would never join a frat. Still, the green, the town, and mostly the Hopkins Center (music major) -- he was love. Had outstanding alumni interview. He was deferred. Alumni went to bat fror him; admissions officer developed real relationship with him. Still, he was ultimately rejected. He was, however, accepted at Brown and Williams RD. By the time this happened he had already decided that the HOP didn't make up fpr the frat scene for him. Dartmouth wasn't really a "fit." He could not have demonstrated more interest. He demonstrated some, but minimal, interest at Brown but it's definitely more the kind of place people would think he would fit in. Because Brown's admissions stats were more selective (only marginally) than Dartmouth's we were surprised he would be rejected at Dartmouth ED and accepted at Brown RD, but it was a better fit. S picked Williams.</p>

<p>BTW -- He was accepted at Chicago EA which did make Dartmouth deferral easier to bear. (Also Bard). I insisted on EA applications because it was devastating for D to be deferred from ED school when it was the only school she applied to. (She was ultimately accepted, but it was a perfect fit for her.)</p>

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<p>ED applicants are most often full-pay applicants because anyone who applies ED is giving up the option of comparing financial aid packages from two or more schools.</p>

<p>As vast numbers of people on these boards will tell you, just because two schools say "we are need blind and we meet 100% of need" does not mean that a student will receive identical financial aid packages from the two schools. There can be huge differences.</p>

<p>If financial aid is an important consideration for your family, ED is not for you.</p>

<p>On the other had, we are full-pay, and my daughter chose to apply ED to a college for which she was well qualified and was a legacy. Her rationale was that her ED application would help distinguish her from the vast numbers of well qualified people from her high school who would later apply RD. It would also give her the maximum benefit from her legacy status. Whether this mattered or not we do not know. But she was admitted.</p>

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<p>I agree with Calmom that no college is gonna accept a bordeline app ED. But, beyond H, Y, P, & S, I think ED is a plus factor for non-hooked, but very competitive kids. Penn even so states.</p>

<p>ED at Emory is definitely a plus, since they know that the same kid will not be applying to an Ivy. However, Emory also offers merit money -- Emory Scholars and do not know how ED would affect merit money.</p>

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<p>daryll40 - The Best 361 Colleges 2007 handbook shows the following:
Emory - 52% acceptance for early decision and 37% for overall acceptance.
Carnegie-Mellon - 58% acceptance for early decision and 39% for overall acceptance. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>If your child is a go along get along type of kid, then pick the best school of those in t he running and do ED--if , and only if , your child doesn't need financial or merit aid. </p>

<p>There is real advantage. I disagree with calmom about male borderline candidates. Borderline girls might not get an advantage from ED because there are so many well qualified girls in the Ed round (becuase girls are organized enough to get those early apps in) --but IMO borderline boys do get some advantage from ED.</p>

<p>If your child needs aid of any kind, go RD.</p>

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<p>Percentages and reported admit can be a little bit deceiving -- because you don't know who is in the ED pool, and at best the data you are looking at is a couple of years old. For example -- at Emory, the common data set shows us that in 2006, 4,535 students were accepted. This represents 31.8% of the total applicant pool, of 14,222 students</p>

<p>The same year, 1,434 students applied ED, of which 488 were admitted (34% admit rate -- only slightly better than RD) -- but note that almost 90% of the students admitted were RD students. Given that we don't know who is in the applicant pool, we really can't say whether ED was an advantage to anyone -- for example, if 80 of the students accepted ED were recruited athletes, then that would convert the odds for the remaining students to 408 out of 1354, to 30%, less than the RD numbers. </p>

<p>From these numbers, you can also see the problems with trying to predict chances -- the PR numbers cited by mountains comes from the 2005 CDS, when Emory accepted 533 out of 1026 ED applicants (52% admit rate) -- that plunged in 2006 as the number of ED applicants increased, and Emory chose to accept less of them overall. The numbers also show Emory being at the ED saturation point in 2006 -- I can't find numbers published for the 2007-2008 school year, but it is clear that any significant increase in total number of ED applicants is likely to result in a shifting of the equation, making the ED round more competitive than the RD round. This doesn't mean that ED students would be at a disadvantage -- as many ED'er who are not admitted are deferred and then admitted later in the RD round -- but the point is that it might not be much of avantage either.</p>

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<p>mythmom:</p>

<p>you are correct in that unfit is a great predictor of admission. But, applying to specialized majors (e.g., music) is different than the run-of-the-mill liberal arts students. For example, if a child is all-state in clarinet, but LAC has five returning clarinetists (new word?), they don't have a need for any more this year. Or, your all-state clarinet applies ED but so do 5 other clarinetists that are nationally-ranked and played in Carnegie Hall.....the rules are just different for such majors.</p>

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<p>Daryll, Welcome! In my opinion and my son's experience, ED can be a win-win experience for the student, the family and for the college. </p>

<p>The basic criteria are that the family must be in a financial situation so that any (or even no) aid offered by the college would be acceptable, the student must have a clear #1 choice and less critical but still important, the student should be a good fit academically and culturally for the school, in other words in the ball park even it's a reach.</p>

<p>Once those three qualifications are met, then I'd say that ED is an excellent strategy. It's true that the process is somewhat schizophrenic: The student must love his/her #1 with all his/her heart and soul and at the same time steel him/herself for the psychological blow if things don't work out. </p>

<p>I think the best way to deal with this is to put your best effort into the ED application, mail it and forgetaboutit. Pursue choices 2-10 with equal vigor and have them all ready to go on the day that the ED results come out. (Or if you don't mind spending the application fee, go ahead and send them in advance of the ED results) Don't put yourself in the position of having to write essays through tears and disappointment.</p>

<p>I see ED as a valid risk management strategy -- as I said good for the college in that they get committed applicants and up their yields -- and good for the student -- as they get an admissions boost at their first choice and get to kick back for the next few months. </p>

<p>Conversely I also see a risk in not applying ED (again, as long as the financial aspect is covered). The way to judge is to look ahead to April and visualize getting a rejection from College X in the RD round. Would you and your child always regret not giving College X that extra effort that ED implies?</p>

<p>In my son's case there was risk that he didn't even know about until afterwards: an extremely qualified student from his high school had also targeted the same LAC as my son's first choice. Because of the size and character of the high school it's unlikely that the LAC would have admitted two students in the RD round and although their profiles were completely different this other kid would have been difficult for the college to turn down. So I always feel grateful that my son decided to apply ED and pre-empted the competition that he wasn't even aware of. In the end, both boys ended up at this college and both had wonderful experiences.</p>

<p>Does being full pay help in ED? I for one take the colleges at their word when they say they are needblind and I believe that the adcom doesn't see the need applications. There are, however, more clues in an application than the leadpipe in the library. Very often colleges are actually looking for low income admits for the purpose of diversity. An upper middleclass (I can pay!) application is also fairly blatant. If the college is not needblind then not asking for financial aid may very well be a plus in an ED application.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know what develops.</p>

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<p>I posted this back in September, and it still summarizes my view of ED</p>

<p>In my opinion, applying ED is a real double-edged sword. Reasons for applying ED include: better chance for acceptance, relatively less applications and if accepted--easier senior year. </p>

<p>Given this why not apply? Well, as is frequently mentioned, financial aid offers may not be as good at some schools, and you can’t compare. In addition, the way the deadlines for schools work, you may have to apply to more than one school anyway. For instance, the UC system deadline is Nov 30, and Stanford "prefers applications by Dec 1". </p>

<p>Also, it can be quite demoralizing in the middle of a demanding senior year to be deferred or rejected from your top choice. The ED and SCEA decisions seemed quite random at our local high school with well-rounded valedictorians and top ranked students not getting into Ivies, while others were accepted--same story for Stanford and Duke. In addition, once deferred, it is difficult to find the statistics for acceptance, but my hunch is they are rather low.</p>

<p>In the end, those with a good result (accepted) are ecstatic, while those with a bad result (deferred or even worse rejected) must lick their wounds and shoulder on through the end of first semester, because those senior grades really really matter now. Then there's the interminable wait until April.</p>

<p>After watching several cycles of this, I’ve come to the opinion that ED and SCEA programs should really come up with some kind of consent form that explains both the BENEFITS and RISKS of these programs to students and parents.</p>

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<p>bluebayou: </p>

<p>I take your point, but not relevant to Dartmouth & Brown. Music chairs said they don't have input into admissions decisions. LAC's, of course, were different. We jusy saw that both kids were more likely to be accepted at schools that really fit them more than at schools where numbers fit, no matter how much interest they expressed.</p>

<p>Admittedly one family's anecdotal evidence is not very persuasive, but I often find points of view that deviate from prevailing wisdom helpful, so I thought OP might also.</p>

<p>I think the college admissions game is so complex and comprehends so many factors that it can't be reduced to an algorithm like "applying early helps" or use numbers to create a safety, match, and reach list. I've come to feel that there are no true matches, just reaches and safeties.</p>

<p>momrath: I am glad this worked for you; this strategy just didn't work in our case. I am not disagreeing with basic thinking. But for us, as the great bard said, 'All's well that ends well", and my S is just as excited to be attending Williams as yours was, and he does not at all regret the process that got him there.</p>