Are adcoms telling the truth about ACT scores?

Parents Forum
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<p>My S. and I are back from our extended trip visiting colleges, although I haven't had a chance to add any reviews of the schools we've seen to this site. However, there is one question that keeps popping up in our heads. Everywhere we went adcoms unequivocally stated that SAT and ACT scores were regarded equally by them. UChicago, Northwestern, Wash U., GW, Wesleyan U., Brown, Vassar, Union, Clark, Cornell, U Rochester, Brandeis....everyone said the same thing. (They urged us to submit both scores but assure us they'll take the higher ones.) </p>

<p>Yet I can't help wondering.... When I actually check the website or various guides for stats on admitted students, it appears there are very few students actually admitted on the basis of ACT scores alone. This is true even for those schools that do not require a separate set of SATII's. Even in those cases where separate admit rates are given for students submitting ACT scores, these are very low. At Brown, for example, over 1,000 students "did not submit CEEB scores" (presumably they submitted ACT?), yet only 8% of this group was admitted, which is considerably lower than the normal Brown acceptance rate. (Not every school gives stats in this format.)</p>

<p>Anyone have an idea what is going on here? Is it that students routinely submit both sets of scores, rather than submitting only ACT, so the ACT people just don't show up as a separate category even though they may be admitted on that basis? Is there still a "prejudice" against ACT scores despite what the adcoms say? Do they really look at both scores and accept certain students on the basis of ACT rather than SAT? Or is it just that students who excell in the ACT are somehow deficient in other parts of their application? Can they really "erase" the lower scores from their heads? Any ideas?</p>

<p>This is more than academic to us. S. has a 32 on ACT, which we've been told, is a decent score for colleges such as we've visited. He also has a 2020 on SAT I, which is not as good. The rest of his record is strong in terms of grades, rank, ecs., etc. His low grade was a 650 in Math; with a 670 in writing and a 700 in verbal. (He had a 31 on ACT math.) His SAT II's are 720 (Bio), 770 (World History), and 780 (US History). Unfortunately we have to send in the entire SAT package for the SAT II's to be included with the application. </p>

<p>So what do we do? Submit only the ACT, or submit both sets of scores? He is going to take the ACT again in late September and the SAT I for a second time in October. Any suggestions about how we structure the application, which scores we leave in or put out?</p>

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<p>Yes, what the adcoms tell you is indeed true. The reason few kids are admitted on the basis of ACT alone is the few kids take only the ACT (my D did...35 composite so opted NOT to take the SAT). Midwest kids applying to elite schools tend to take it AND the SAT, but few take it and only submit these scores. Remember, if any SAT II score gets submitted, the college "sees" all SAT scores including SAT I. So, keep and submit the excellent 32 and don't sweat it! The only school that I found that categorically does not accept the ACT is Cal Tech.</p>

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<p>Cami I was wondering the same thing, but for us right now it is academic. I asked this Q to an advisor at my son's hs and she said the act from the NE will look strange, don't do it. I have not read that on the cc site. I just assumed that the advisor just has not kept up and is not up to date. Many kids on cc have taken both. After looking at some admission data I am beginning to think that the hs advisor may be correct ( I know that is not what some ppl want to hear, but it may be the case; I don't know). It is a very important Q !</p>

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<p>I've heard that Princeton doesn't like the ACT as much, but I don't think they would say that outright.</p>

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<p>Northeastmom - our DD took both the SAT and ACT - admitted to 3 southern schools - that is all she applied to - accepted to all - (yes we are from the northeast as well) - At her first choice school she was exempt from 2 courses and placed up into higher classes - because of her ACT scores!!! yet was admitted based on her SAT '''AND''' ACT scores to the honors program.</p>

<p>In my experience - very few northeastern kids take the ACT - my DD was the ONLY one in her class to take them - much to her benefit I must say. I strongly believe that the SAT was a weaker test for DD and that she greatly benefited from taking the ACT. I have spoken to many friends who had NO clue about the ACt as it is not ''pushed'' in this part of the country for the most part - but is VERY acceptable in other parts of the country for high school students.</p>

<p>I think the advisor you speak of may be behind the times on this one. If colleges are taking either/or - then they are looked on equally - some kids fair much better on one test than the other - good example in our own situation with DD. Many applicants submit only one or the other - some submit both. We asked the same question when we were going thru this process about acceptability - and were actually encouraged to submit both - as highest scores would be considered for admission. At some schools it is even optional to submit ANY scores at all. I do believe they are treated equally and fairly by adcoms after our own experience.</p>

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<p>Actually, Princeton says so outright: It will only accept the ACT if it is required by other colleges to which the student is applying. These tend to be Midwestern colleges. The majority of Princeton applicants tend to be from the East and West Coasts and there, most students take the SAT.</p>

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<p>But how can they tell what other schools you are applying to?
I guess this means that all ED applicants need the SAT, but they can't prove that you're not applying to a college that requires ACT. </p>

<p>But thanks for clarifying; I knew I heard somewhere that they don't view them equally, I just wasn't sure.</p>

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<p>Jeepmom, Thanks. We will keep this in mind for S#2. I think I will have him do a practice run on each. If he does better on the act, I am not sure what I will do. I am glad to hear that your experience w the act was positive. I wonder how they are received at east coast schools from east coast kids.</p>

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<p>Also, note that many schools (including Penn and Yale as well as Wesleyan) do not require ANY SAT II scores if the ACT is submitted.</p>

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<p>I can't think of any midwestern schools which require the ACT. All I've heard of accept either.</p>

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<p>Another reason for so few people taking just the ACT is that if you're a National Merit Semifinalist, you <em>must</em> take the SAT to advance to finalist, as it is supposed to confirm that your PSAT scores are no fluke. I ended up retaking the SAT I because although I was happy with my ACT scores, I was worried that my SAT might keep me from National Merit Scholar.</p>

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<p>Form the Princeton website:</p>

<p>ACT</p>

<p>If all of your other college choices require ACT results and not the SAT, you may submit the ACT (old or new) to Princeton in place of the SAT Reasoning Test. As with the SAT, it is recommended that students take the new ACT with the writing option at least once. Three SAT Subject Tests are still required.</p>

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<p>Here's a related question. If a student takes (or retakes) the ACT on the late October date (opting NOT to submit the SAT and SAT II scores) ... is there enough time to later submit the ACT score for an ED or SCEA application?</p>

<p>Would the student have to designate the school on the ACT registration form, or would there be enough time to take the test, get back the score, evaluate it (view it early online) and then submit it? </p>

<p>I'm concerned that if the student is waiting for score results and they are late in being reported (happens to many with both SAT and ACT) the college application would go in with no accompanying ACT or SAT grades.</p>

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<p>Twinmom,</p>

<p>Hmm... It took us less than two weeks to get the ACT results on the computer, but then it took another week to get the essay/combined writing scores. Would that work if you made a rush request? You'd really have to check with the school about the latest results accepted.</p>

<p>The ACT has a late September testing in some states. Check to see if your own state is included in this list. My son retakes it at that time.</p>

<p>@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@</p>

<p>My S. attends a small private school in Texas where all the kids go on to college. Last year's "top" student ended up at Princeton. At least one-third of the class took the ACT as well as the SAT. </p>

<p>Since my S. is not a candidate for any of the HYPS, the Princeton situation doesn't directly affect us. I do remember reading that U Penn had a preference for the SAT, but I don't know if it was current or older material that I was looking at. </p>

<p>My son's guidance counselor maintains that, with the exception of one or two colleges in the northeast, the ACT and SAT are interchangably accepted. When the alumni counselor at Brown reviewed my S's materials at some length, she had no problem with the ACT.</p>

<p>Still, we live in a world where we are deluged with SAT scores....even the rankings are predicated on them....and there's that nagging feeling of being a bit "out-of-line" if you're measuring yourself by some other yardstick. But, unless my son's October SAT zooms into the stratosphere, we are likely to submit both tests and hold our breath.</p>

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<p>Cami, US News rankings are not predicated on SAT scores only - they are predicated on either SAT or ACT. US News does the rankings by having the reported SAT/ACT scores translated into a percentile rank, and then they use the percentile for their own formula. </p>

<p>In other words, an ACT that is a 98th percentile score is the same as an SAT that is 98th percentile for purposes of how the scores might affect ranking.</p>

<p>This is useful to know, because if you think that the college might favor one over the other for purposes of ranking, you might look at the way each reports percentiles rather than raw score.</p>

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<p>Cami - Check your PM.</p>

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<p>I don't know the answer. But Northwestern seems pretty okay with ACT: </p>

<p><a href="http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/facts/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ugadm.northwestern.edu/freshman/facts/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>For example, those with 35-36 seemed to do better than those with 750-800 on SAT math/verbal. Maybe 35 is harder to get than 1500. But even those with 33-34 on ACT are doing just as well as those with 750-800 on SAT math/verbal. However, we do not know how many of the ACT takers also took SAT and maybe those taking both were favored.</p>

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<p>We were just at a Penn info session where the adcom told the students that they accept the SAT I (old + 3 SAT IIs one of which must be writing OR new + 2 SATs in whatever) OR the ACT...no SAT IIs required.</p>

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<p>Source: <a href="http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/testing.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/applying/testing.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>For High Graduates in 2006:

[quote]
For students graduating from high school in 2006, and applying to Penn for the Class of 2010, we highly encourage you to take the new SAT I with Writing, administered by the College Board beginning in March 2005. Our final policy regarding the number of SAT II exams to accompany the new SAT-I with Writing will be determined shortly. Please continue to visit this page for our final policy and answers to frequently asked questions. Students planning to take the ACT, in lieu of the SAT I and II exams are required to take the new ACT with Writing, administered by the ACT beginning February 2005.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>However, the criteria for 2009 was pretty clear that the SATs were preferred:

[quote]

The ACT: *Although the SATs are preferred, the American College Test may be used in lieu of the SAT I and three SAT II: Subject Tests. *

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>I believe the ACT score out weighs the SAT's in some respects because of the content of the test - and by taking the ACT it may not require the SAT II's at many schools. An ACT that is fairly equivilent to an SAT would still have a higher ranking - so to speak because of the dynamics of the test itself - covers more in 1 test than in SAT + II's</p>

<p>Where both the ACT and SAT have a written portion - many schools will continue to accept either/or.</p>