Are coaches necessary? Helpful? Ethical?

<p>…and in response to the comment that slipped in before my post - we understand that no coaching company can guarantee acceptance - and MTCA has never implied to us that they do.</p>

<p>kategrizz…MTCA is true coaching, I was not implying they are doing anything but.</p>

<p>Kategrizz, I completely agree about the need for outside perspective–that’s what I meant when I referred to outside-of-school experiences–you are right that it helps a TON to get a sense of where you stand outside of your everyday school/community “bubble.” It’s crucial in so many ways. Again, though, if a family can’t afford a summer program, they shouldn’t despair–we all know kids who have thrived in this process without them. I am glad my son had the chance to test himself in different environments and to see whether the intense, immersion atmosphere was a good fit for him. And, as is the case with coaching, anyone who invests in a summer program should have their eyes wide open to the fact that it doesn’t guarantee admission anywhere! ;)</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Who is promising or guaranteeing acceptances?</p>

<p>One quick comment. Using a coach does not absove the student from taking a lot of personal responsibility for his or her auditions, etc. My D had to do a lot of work with song selection, applications, school selection, etc. The coach helped a lot and gave a lot of very good advice but that certainly didn’t absolve my D of responsibility by any means.</p>

<p>Oh for the days before expensive coaches became the norm, when kids did their own monologue and song research, and selected and perfected their own audition material, when the opinions of their own drama teacher, or voice teacher, or dance instructor was thought to be enough. This was before the number of ‘coaching’ operations, with varied, and some with questionable, experience, had increased exponentially to the point that so many applicants felt the need to engage one to assist them through the process. Amazingly, it wasn’t that long ago that families didn’t find it necessary to do so, and the kids managed just fine. The good old days. :)</p>

<p>alwaysamom - What came first, the chicken or the egg? Or should I say what came first, the higher number of applicants due to the Glee factor (American Idol/Smash/The Voice) or the number of MT college coaches ready to help prepare students for the process? In my opinion, it was the increased number of applicants - it was not the appearance of coaches on the scene that made the process more competitive. That being said, I do wish MT departments would be looking at those auditioning more with potential in mind, than an expectation that their skills are already attained!</p>

<p>Times3 - A coach hand-picking a monologue (or a song)? Not at MTCA. Her Song Selection/Performance Coach and her Monologue Coach offered suggestions which they read through together, and my D brought her selections, opinions and experience to the table. Once they narrowed the options together, she was required to go home and read the plays. I understand that is way less time-consuming than finding selections on one’s own, which is one of the reasons we opted for coaching since D was involved with so much outside of classes, but my D was not handed songs or monologues without her own input and work. She also put plenty of time and effort working on her audition pieces. Believe me, she felt ownership, but not without an appreciation that she had coaches who understood her type, vocal style and skill, and the college audition process to guide her along the way.</p>

<p>vvnstar - I completely agree. At no point did we feel that MTCA influenced my D’s admissions into a program. I do not believe coaches have that kind of pull. It is absolutely the head of the programs who need to live with their choices for all four years of college, why would they allow themselves to be influenced by coaches?</p>

<p>My D used one MTCA coach for Song Selection/Performance and a different one for General Audition Coaching and Monologue Selection/Performance. The MTCA song coach helped her obtain the piano tracks which made life easier. D continued her weekly voice lessons with a teacher closer to home (alternately you can use an MTCA coach for vocal technique). Although she had been dancing for years, she had cut out lessons at the beginning of high school so returned to fairly regular ballet classes at the beginning of junior year. We did not use their college selection coach since my D and I had great communication and did so much research on the programs (especially me - I obsessed over it). She attended a few of their 2-hour dance classes, and a mock audition. She did not attend any of their master classes. We used a local choreographer from her middle school musical days to help with the dance portion of her prescreen. If I were to do it all again, I would absolutely go back to the same coaches/voice teacher/choreographer, and also would have had D attend one or two master classes. I definitely would have gotten feedback from the coaches on her prescreens. I don’t think we did our best on the taping and prep for those. </p>

<p>Both coaches were honest but supportive, kept her focused, offered perspective and were awesome role models, appearing in Broadway and Off-Broadway shows while she was working with them (Once, Jesus Christ Superstar and Finks). My D felt prepared and excited about auditions. That being said, despite all the coaching and lessons, she had limited success. She was admitted into only one auditioned MT program…all you need is one of course, but she didn’t have the multiple options that some kids get, coached or not. She is proof that coaching isn’t a guarantee!</p>

<p>Everyone’s situation is different of course, but I cannot imagine where my daughter would be without the fabulous folks at MTCA. I’ve written this elsewhere, but here goes again: YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW!! </p>

<p>I’m sure there are many of you that have wonderful resources and connections in your community, but for us, MTCA was absolutely essential. The knowledge, expertise and kindness that they shared with us changed my daughter’s life. I’m not exaggerating. </p>

<p>I won’t restate what others have said about the amazing things MTCA did for us as I’ve said it elsewhere, but I want to share what happened to kids we know with NO coaching . . . our journey is done as my girl is happily attending her dream school, so I’m just sending out a wee bit of a cautionary tale.</p>

<p>There are three kids in our community that I could see being really competitive and being admitted into top programs. None of them had any coaching or guidance beyond resources in our community. One handsome young man is a really strong dancer and singer and good actor. He auditioned for one school in NYC that is more of a classical singer program. He didn’t get in. With some coaching I know he would have been really competitive, especially because he was guy who could dance. I think he’s now going to move to nearby urban area. What a shame. </p>

<p>Another really talented actor, solid singer, beautiful young lady went to LA Unifieds and auditioned for a few schools . . . one of her songs was from Grey Gardens. As Big Edie. The girl was 18. She got into an acting program in Southern California, but didn’t attend. I’m not sure where she is attending now. </p>

<p>The third girl could’ve gotten into any singer-first program in the country. For real. She was one of two called back for a final audition for a lead in Broadway revival a few years ago. Beautiful voice, strong actor and dancer and a beautiful girl. She is now languishing in a mediocre program because she didn’t have any advisors “in the know”. She is so talented, I just keep hoping that someone sees her and moves her in a positive direction.</p>

<p>I often think of these talented young kids and wish that they could’ve had someone like the folks at MTCA work with them. Of course, some would say that it just wasn’t meant to be for them and they may end up having great careers, and that is true. But every time I see posts about coaching vs. not coaching, I think of the kids who missed some opportunities because they didn’t have coaching from people who have the expertise and know what’s going on in the theatre community right now!</p>

<p>kksmom, the three kids you cited aren’t in the positions they’re in due to a lack of coaching, but rather due to a lack of research and legwork. Chances are good that if they’d done the requisite research, their outcomes would have been very different. Only auditioning for one school, choosing audition material that is not age appropriate, etc. are the types of mistakes made by applicants who clearly did zero research. This type of information is available to anyone who makes even the remotest of efforts to look for it. While it may be easier with a coach, it certainly isn’t necessary.</p>

<p>The sad part is there will always be kids who do not do the research and end up in lesser programs. And there will always be kids who have had every opportunity their parents could give them (and afford), and they will NOT get into top programs.</p>

<p>Talent is talent, and reading books/websites/college websites/etc. can help anyone present their best work at college auditions, just as much as a coach can.</p>

<p>Well now, wait a minute. We may be going to far in the opposite direction.</p>

<p>Of course, there will be kids who get in to all levels of programs - tippy-top, good, mediocre, and not great but they have an audition so what-the-heck, and people will forever fight about what school should be on what list but national coaching is helpful. I don’t care how much research a 17-year old is willing to do on their own or even with parents help unless they have some knowledge beyond high school and community theater and a local voice teacher they will be at a disadvantage. Some may get in, but yikes!</p>

<p>These coaches know what particular schools tend to take what kinds of kids and they have rooms full of thousands of appropriate songs and monologues. It’s more than just a little helpful.</p>

<p>I personally hate coaching and wish schools were looking for developing talent but more and more so many are looking for the stars of tomorrow and want them ready sooner rather than later. I think a lot of what they used to learn the first year in a program they now learn from a coach in order to get in. No, not always.</p>

<p>So, for those of you who have been through the process, how many truly unprepared, in-over-their-heads kids did you and/or your kids see? It seems that most posts I’ve seen about the actual auditions indicate that there are many, many talented kids out there.</p>

<p>We saw a tremendous number of talented kids at every audition we attended. I think Syracuse said they had had a 40% increase in applicants, and I know many others stated even larger increases in the numbers of students auditioning over the last few years. The acceptance rate for many programs is less than 10% and for some it is even less than 5%. No matter how prepared you are, these programs are really tough to get in. Applicants need to remember, they may have the best audition in the world, but if that program already has 3 or 4 other people that are their same type, odds are not great that you will get in no matter your talent.<br>
To answer your question, We also saw a number of kids who seemed less prepared - generally those asking a lot of questions just outside the audition rooms about what song they should sing, people trying to mark cuts in their music while waiting, people who didnt know to bring dance clothes for a dance call, those who didnt know to staple their resume to their headshot, those who didnt bring a headshot, etc… But it didn’t mean they weren’t talented. Just less prepared.
In general, I think the schools who use a prescreen probably had fewer of the “less prepared” kids than those who do not pre screen. But there is so much information out there I think the majority of kids know what to wear and the type of material they should be presenting.</p>

<p>Although I personally used college audition coaching, I see many students who are very talented and accepted into numerous places without one. Typically, however, those students are not beginners in the world of musical theatre and often ARE being coached- by voice instructors at studio back home, taking dance classes, working on their monologues with the high school drama teachers. And that works just as well! Training is training, and the more prepared you are the better, and all of that work can easily be done in your local area and with some help from wonderful sites online like this one!</p>

<p>The thing that coaches really have to offer is the ability to help you build a list of schools. Yes, you can look at stats and you can build a stable list on your own (reaches, safeties, matches, etc.) based on acceptance rates/audition numbers, the reputation of them being “competitive” or not, etc. But what coaches provide is almost inside information. Not that they promote their students to schools (that is a WHOLE other road I’m not interested in going down), but that it is their JOB to know what every particular school is looking for. Most of these college audition-specific coaches have studied and researched different BFA MT programs, and their ability to build a specialized list of schools for each of their particular students is what is so valuable, in my opinion. </p>

<p>Each program is looking for different things, and they do vary from year to year. However, once you get a grasp on what a program typically “wants” in a student/what kinds of students and types they typically accept (and establish relationships with people who work in these programs), developing that list of schools becomes almost mathematical. And when a good list is built, it can often heighten the amount of schools that particular student gets into. Because they were smart about where to apply in the first place.</p>

<p>To answer Merlehay’s question, I would say we saw/heard approximately 15% to 25% who were in over their heads at any particular audition. We saw one girl bragging about her “obscure” audition songs - so obscure she doubted we had heard of them (“Gimme, Gimme” and “Green Finch and Linnet Bird,”); kids wearing baggy sweatpants and huge tees and bare feet at dance calls; girls who brought two belting songs and were shocked when they were asked for a legit song; kids screaming their songs (no coach would have let these kids scream like this); kids without any way to play their music at schools that clearly stated they needed to bring a sound system and a MP3 or CD, etc; girls doing the tuna fish monologue or a song that was clearly on the do not do list for a particular school, etc. To me, all these things indicated that these kids were unprepared. Did some of them have coaches? Yes… some had local theater directors/voice coaches. Others had no one. Were they at a disadvantage? Absolutely. </p>

<p>On the flip side of the coin, undoubtedly there were kids who had no coaches who got into top programs. It runs the gamut. It is absolutely doable, as so many have pointed out. But I saw too many of my D’s extremely talented friends get into only one program out of 16, or no programs, and they did not use coaches. (We do know one girl who got into Juilliard, and had no coach…it DOES happen).</p>

<p>It is a personal decision. It is not necessary. For us, I think my D would have been lost without MTCA’s help with song choice and monologue choice, and without their coaching. My D learned so much from them, and she had songs and monologues that fit her PERFECTLY. No matter how much we tried, we never could have come up with her audition material. </p>

<p>MTCA did not promise us anything. They made no guarantees. They were 100% ethical. But I am 1000% sure my D would not have gotten into the wonderful programs she did without them.</p>

<p>Someone (MTpragmatist?) should look at the schools kids got into last year and then look at them in 3 categories (coached by one of the big 2 or 3 - MTCA, Moo, or perhaps ArtsBridge); coached by local coaches; not coached. It may not show any difference, but it may be very helpful.</p>

<p>Merlehay,
We have three kids involved in theatre, two who went through BFA auditions. Neither son used coaching, but had experience in theatre beyond school, voice and dance teachers, and a director friend who did a few acting sessions with them. Our older son went through the process in '05/06 and since most of his potential schools were smaller programs, it’s easier to estimate about 15% were not realistically prepared. I don’t know if we can say anyone was completely unprepared. And, our estimate is just based on conversation w/ students and families, observing auditions, etc. For some perspective, our older son witnessed one boy’s acting audition at a particular school (very prepared, very talented), and that boy flubbed the audition, went silent, and was not accepted at that school. He was accepted at excellent schools and that same boy is on Broadway today. Our younger son applied in '11/'12 to varying size programs, so it would be tougher to gauge who seems unprepared. We would say, again based on conversation and witnessing auditions, that about 10% seem not realistically prepared. Of course, we’re keeping in mind that varying levels of talent don’t equate with preparation in voice, dance, acting. Talent and preparation aren’t the same thing. Many students know their limitations in one or more areas. For example, certain boys know they don’t quite have the dance skills compared to voice or acting. How students get realistically prepared can also vary depending on their natural talent in certain areas. The difference in preparation can show in attire, monologue/song choice, knowledge of dance terminology (even if you can’t execute, etc.) This is critical because so many schools are looking at the development potential in a student, the intentions of a student, beyond just the natural talent. Of course, even the exceptionally prepared student can have an “off” audition. It’s all very subjective. Suffice it to say that the most preparation results in fewer “off” auditions. This is what was key for our family.</p>

<p>For those that used a coach how much time did you spend coaching and how did you guys fit it into your kids schedule? Also, how far out did you start coaching? Did you guys need 4 monologues or have some already to bring to the table?</p>

<p>Senior Year, I usually coached about once a week (rotating one week acting coach one week singing/vocal technique coaching) and did them on saturdays or like 7PM at night over Skype until about the beginning of February this year. I know my coaches varied but most of them would not coach for a session ending after 10. I started May of my Junior Year and at that time I would coach max twice a month, and did not coach for the 9 weeks I was at a summer program. I know some I don’t think you need monologues to bring for the table, I did not and I don’t think most my friends did. I did MTCA, btw.</p>

<p>Shacherry- My D is a rising senior and we started in May of her Jr. year. We are doing a very similar schedule to dg22894. Our coach is very flexible, we have done Sunday morning Skype sessions with her as well as a Monday night session. The monologue coach we have met with on a Saturday morning and a Sunday evening. They both have sent out there availabilities by email a few weeks in advance, so we pick a time that works and schedule it (Skype). Now once summer is over, I expect things to be harder to juggle, but I don’t believe it will be a huge issue to find the time to Skype a few times a month. My daughter is not attending a summer program away from home, so she is trying to schedule some extra sessions now in case things get crazy in the fall.</p>

<p>We met with the coach Christmas break of junior year. Her first meeting after that was in June before senior year. They met about every month until closer to auditions and then about ever couple weeks or so for about an hour or two. Probably all told around 8-10 meeting times. scheduling was always a bit tough because of all the stuff my D had going on senior year but they worked it out. Oh, and one more thing: after the inital meeting the coach specifically asked Mom and Dad to not attend, that my D had to own the process. Which she did.</p>

<p>Would she have gotten the three acceptances she got without a coach? We’ll never know, but we do know it was a big help just in understanding the process, understanding what different schools look for, etc.</p>